Ferric TDS vs Nebula StuderA800 (R2R) vs UAD

[Mudcat007]

Here is the Reaper FxChain i've used for A:

http://www.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx? ... 6575afac6d

Cool! Thanks!

[Nighthawk77]

My experience is that the UAD is the only one that really sounds like tape at all.

I own several analog tape machines and used them for years.
There is a ton of hype about Nebula (over hype).
Ferric looks cool but i don't use it.

Having said that, the UAD distorts too easy, more then analog tape.

You cant hit it as hard as tape and therefor cant get the same saturation.
It is not my favorite of the UAD stuff and rather pricey but it is as close to tape as I have heard.

Its a subtle effect when used as suggested.

[bmanic]

So, all Nebula can do at the moment is approximate the "sound", flavour and harmonic content of tape and it's overdrive. That's all.

Cheers!
bManic

Is that bad ?

I mean, if people are pleased (VERY pleased) with the results... isn't THAT
what counts ?

As I see it, this approximation works well for most people... do we have to
seek that "extra inch" just for the sake of it ?...

Looks like you missed my point. We are not just missing "extra inches".. we are missing like 95% of tape emulation in Nebula, at least if you want to use tape as an effect and not just fairy dust.

It's like having a compressor plugin that can only compress a maximum of 2dB.

Please don't avoid the issue. Nebula can NOT emulate tape properly at this time. Period. It can approximate the behavior at a very narrow range of values.

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

3. That Nebula library clearly does not minge-fart your sound. That doesn't mean it's bad or that it's forbidden to like it. It's just not tape.

It does seem like you are focussing on only one element and not necessarily the most useful...whilst simultaneously negating the fact that none of the tape 'emulations' are tape either...they are emulations which to my ears do not sound convincing overall - fart sound or not.

Since owning Nebula R2R Ive not so much missed the fart element of tape...but Ive sold all my other tape emulators and judging by the comparisons Im not sad that I sold my UAD card either...

It just depends on how you want to use tape. I know Kingston and how he likes to compose stuff. He really uses tape as an effect, not for subtle glue or harmonic distortion. The guy doesn't like subtle stuff at all.. you should see him abuse compressors. If the meters ain't peaking in the red the bloody thing ain't working.

Nebula is perfect for people like me.. I love subtle little changes in tonality and dynamics. I love a touch of fairy dust. Still, do I claim Nebula is a faithful emulation of tape? Nope, because it isn't. It's a faithful emulation of a very narrow range of tape (and even here it can not emulate tape clipping properly). Trust me.. I've tried many MANY times to sample our Telefunken M15 in the studio. Can't do it yet with nebula.

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

There is a ton of hype about Nebula (over hype).

Not as over hyped as some UAD "emulations".

Having said that, the UAD distorts too easy, more then analog tape.

You cant hit it as hard as tape and therefor cant get the same saturation.
It is not my favorite of the UAD stuff and rather pricey but it is as close to tape as I have heard.

Its a subtle effect when used as suggested.

Just because you have used tons of tape machines you can not safely state this unless you put down all the details. What tape brand were you using? How did you calibrate it (over or underbiased or exactly with accordance to YOUR tape brand's calibration tape?). What kind of inputs were there to your tape machine. Do the tape machine pre-amps/inputs distort before the tape does (this can happen!)? How were the inputs tuned.. safe or hot? There are just way too many variables to have an opinion on the accuracy of the UAD emulation based on your own experience of tape machines, unless you have heard the exact same machine together with the exact same brands of tape, that UAD used!

It always amazes me how people claim they have used tons of tape and know exactly how tape sounds.. it doesn't have a friggin universal "sound"!!! They all sound VERY different. Some are harsh and nasty as hell (bad machine+tape combo, shitty maintenance, etc), some are almost completely transparent even when compared to the direct digital source, some are "mush machines", some are transient tyrants, some are soft pillowy saturation boxes, some have aliasing-like in-harmonic crap all over the place and most are broken.

Tape. Has. No. Universal. Sound.

Cheers!
bManic

PS. I've only used 5 different tape machines in my life but I've maintained and calibrated 3 of them.. that took several weeks of studying and almost f**king up the extremely expensive calibration tape! I also just realized it's soon time to re-calibrate and de-magnetize the Telefunken. I also have only a single cake of EMTEC 900 left.. and no AGFA PEM468 any more (best tape ever). f**k! Not looking forward to this at all.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

@bmanic: but it seems like michael (cdsoundm) achieved interesting results. Sometimes I'm surprised when a library developer finds a way for using the same tools and getting new results. I find that R2R veryvery different from our commercial library samples, and I don't have an explanation about it.

[meloco_go]

Looks like you missed my point. We are not just missing "extra inches".. we are missing like 95% of tape emulation in Nebula, at least if you want to use tape as an effect and not just fairy dust.

Does UAD Studer give that?
I sent some test signal stuff to a friend of mine who is demoing it (I don't have UAD so can't demo it myself) and I didn't find that it does much except of EP and waveshaping.

[bmanic]

@bmanic: but it seems like michael (cdsoundm) achieved interesting results. Sometimes I'm surprised when a library developer finds a way for using the same tools and getting new results. I find that R2R veryvery different from our commercial library samples, and I don't have an explanation about it.

The results are fantastic! I'm not denying that.. they sound friggin amazing! But like I said, it is NOT an emulation of tape. When you emulate something and want to call it an emulation you really need to cover the whole range. One can utterly destroy audio with tape.. just hit it hard enough and there is nothing left but total mush and noise.

A true emulation should allow these settings.

Otherwise it'd be like a flight simulator where you can fly within only constrained parameters and never crash.

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

Looks like you missed my point. We are not just missing "extra inches".. we are missing like 95% of tape emulation in Nebula, at least if you want to use tape as an effect and not just fairy dust.

Does UAD Studer give that?
I sent some test signal stuff to a friend of mine who is demoing it (I don't have UAD so can't demo it myself) and I didn't find that it does much except of EP and waveshaping.

I don't know. We don't have an UAD card in the studio any more (I don't believe in DSP technology at all. It's a total ripoff.. dongle that costs thousands of dollars. Ridiculous).

I would assume though that you can hit the emulation really hard. It operates with floating points so just insert an UAD A800 into the mixer and before that insert something like Sonalksis Free G.. then hit it with +30dBFS signals. I'm pretty sure it'll be completely obliterated, just like tape.

Cheers!
bManic

[electro]

Does UAD Studer give that?
I sent some test signal stuff to a friend of mine who is demoing it (I don't have UAD so can't demo it myself) and I didn't find that it does much except of EP and waveshaping.

I don't know. We don't have an UAD card in the studio any more (I don't believe in DSP technology at all. It's a total ripoff.. dongle that costs thousands of dollars. Ridiculous).

Yes they stumbled on the pricing of the UAD-2 hardware, but what about the robust vintage Reverb and Delay options that appear on the UAD platform?

You have Echoplex, Space Echo, EMT Reverbs, Timecube and even some Lexicon verbs in the works.

[bmanic]

There are plenty of options as native plugins. I really like Bootsies NastyDLA, it's brilliant. Then we have FabFilter Timeless 2, several different roland tape echo emulations etc.

Empty Room Systems have made a pretty convincing EMT 250.. Lexicon has their PCM96 as native plugins (very expensive though), there are soon more lexicon goodies out like the Relab stuff.

.. and then there is Nebula for all the vintage EQs you could ever want (and they sound much better than the UAD variants, in my opinion).

I seriously do not see any need for the UAD card. I'd love the fatso though..

Cheers!
bManic

[SWAN808]

I'd love the fatso though..

Over-rated IMO...

Now we have a glut of great ITB reverbs, compressors (although I prefer hardware) and Nebula EQs...for me the most compelling thing about UAD these days is the nice GUIs, cool company ethos and exclusivity...and thats not enough for me to part cash for any more...I sold mine and dont miss it...I spent the money on good low end hardware and Nebula programs...

[Tp3]

I'd love the fatso though..

Over-rated IMO...

Now we have a glut of great ITB reverbs, compressors (although I prefer hardware) and Nebula EQs...for me the most compelling thing about UAD these days is the nice GUIs, cool company ethos and exclusivity...and thats not enough for me to part cash for any more...I sold mine and dont miss it...I spent the money on good low end hardware and Nebula programs...

WOW... talk about total agreement here (not only you two... between EVERYONE)

Oh well...

[bmanic]

I'd love the fatso though..

Over-rated IMO...

I've never tried the UAD version but have plenty of hours with the hardware. I love it to bits!

Cheers!
bManic

[Tony Ostinato]

i was just thinking that tons of tape machine isn't really that many, not like tons of plugins since they weigh nothing.