TSC Request for Help with Tracking Down Collective Silence Bug

[Uhotug]

Ubuntu 16.04, i7 (DELL XPS)
Waveform 8.1.14, Collective 1.0.6
Just tried 1.0.9, it "Connecting to the Marketplace" every time I try to open GUI... Sometimes successfully, sometimes with Waveform crash...

Still getting silence bug, the procedure already explained.

Users have already confirmed, the problem is:
* around effects, particular effect is not important: approximate place of the bug is known
* manipulating one instance influence other instances: that narrows potential places in the code

Dear developers, do you think all your users understand nothing in programming?
"We can not reproduce" is NOT an argument: you can ask anyone with that problem for remote access. So you CAN reproduce, but you DO NOT WANT to reproduce...

[magicmusic]

now i get a simple bass sound in 1 track and few notes track and 1 track sound dropouts. can see on sec 23 sound settings no filter, no effects. at 1 min 5 bass is play solo and some notes are not play. this is first time a single track have sound dropouts. volume is a little silence due to record

Edit: in this example song there are always same notes not play. the bass can play from c1 when press on keyboard. the notes that not play are not show in red on keyboard image in collective. the example song is the link i post with changes see in video

[zzz00m]

Therefore, may I again ask you if someone of you could do the tedious task to make a track that shows the erroneous behaviour, load that track again and switch off *one* of the sound generating modules, check if Collective still goes silent and if so, repeat this procedure switching off more and more modules until the problem doesn't occur anymore? That would really, really help.

Thank you all in advance,

Wolfram

Done! It is the on-board effects modules.

Hi zzz00m,

it might be that the reverb is the culprit, but it doesn't need to be. A reverb effect works by feeding back audio data over and over and if one of the samples contains an invalid float value such as NaN (not a number) or infinity, any resulting calculation also results in such an invalid float value.

Therefore, your observation that activating the reverb kills any audio output is correct, but the reverb might have received an invalid float value as input, which means that it by itself is not the culprit but some audio module in one of the voices.

Best wishes,

Wolfram

I reproduced this again while I was testing with another project that had two instances of Collective and 2 other 3rd party instruments. Plus a master plugin "Master Mix", using preset "FinalMaster".

Interesting thing happened this time. On track #3 the 2nd instance of Collective (preset "Fingered Bass 2 EM") dropped output, but the Master output also dropped at the same time (entire project went silent).

Disabled the Effect 4 in the Collective preset, but still no sound. Deleted "Master Mix" from the Master section and audio started playing again!

[zzz00m]

[duplicate - delete]

[Walli]

for me the update to Collective 1.0.8 alone didn´t fix the silence bug, but after also installing Waveform 8.1.14, the silence bug seems to be gone - fingers crossed.
Tested on Windows7

[zzz00m]

for me the update to Collective 1.0.8 alone didn´t fix the silence bug, but after also installing Waveform 8.1.14, the silence bug seems to be gone - fingers crossed.
Tested on Windows7

I thought the same at first with 8.1.14, because it did not happen for a while. But eventually, and randomly it happens. Cannot reproduce the bug on demand, so it must require a specific set of conditions to occur.

And it only happens for me in Waveform, never in the other hosts that I run.

[Wolfram Franke]

Hi everyone,

we have made new public beta versions of BioTek and Collective which log wrong numbers produced by the audio processing to a file.
The log file is stored at:

[Windows] [User Folder]\AppData\Roaming\Tracktion\Biotek.log
[Linux] ~/.config/Tracktion/Biotek.log
[Mac] ~/Library/Logs/Tracktion/Biotek.log

(likewise for Collective)

When you experience the silence problem, it would be great if you could have a look into the log file and see if it reported something like:

Gain: 10 NaN
(could also be in a filter, a reverb etc.)

If you see any of those NaN entries, please send the log file to me in a DM or report it on tracktion.zendesk.com.

Get BioTek 1.6.0 public beta here:
https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... /?v=biotek

Get Collective 1.1.0 public beta here:
https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... collective

Thanks and best wishes,

Wolfram

[magicmusic]

this new collective seem work ok. i test during record with free screen recorder. . but sound come always back after 1 bar.

only strange is, my testsong use only 3 collective instances, but log file show 4 instances and 1 instance is long time load before. i load 3 times. and in 2. try there are load 5 instances

Code: Select all

**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 7:23:10pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 7:23:20pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 7:23:20pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 7:23:20pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 7:36:14pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 7:36:19pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 7:36:28pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 7:36:29pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 7:36:29pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 8:09:21pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 8:09:31pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 8:09:32pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 8:09:32pm

[zzz00m]

Hi everyone,

we have made new public beta versions of BioTek and Collective which log wrong numbers produced by the audio processing to a file.
The log file is stored at:

[Windows] [User Folder]\AppData\Roaming\Tracktion\Biotek.log
[Linux] ~/.config/Tracktion/Biotek.log
[Mac] ~/Library/Logs/Tracktion/Biotek.log

(likewise for Collective)

When you experience the silence problem, it would be great if you could have a look into the log file and see if it reported something like:

Gain: 10 NaN
(could also be in a filter, a reverb etc.)

If you see any of those NaN entries, please send the log file to me in a DM or report it on tracktion.zendesk.com.

Get BioTek 1.6.0 public beta here:
https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... /?v=biotek

Get Collective 1.1.0 public beta here:
https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... collective

Thanks and best wishes,

Wolfram

Thanks for the update!

I just tested Collective 1.1.0 and one instance of Collective dropped out soon after my test project started playback. When I clicked on the plugin in trackview to open up properties, Waveform 8.2.0 64-bit immediately crashed. Nothing in the Collective log except that the two instances were started when I opened the project.

**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 2:18:13pm


**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 29 Jul 2017 2:18:17pm

On the next Waveform startup, I received this message:



[Edit] On a following test run I also had another Collective instance drop out. Still nothing special in the log, but this time no Waveform crash when I opened the plugin properties.

[Wolfram Franke]

this new collective seem work ok. i test during record with free screen recorder. . but sound come always back after 1 bar.

only strange is, my testsong use only 3 collective instances, but log file show 4 instances and 1 instance is long time load before. i load 3 times. and in 2. try there are load 5 instances

Please don't try to read more out of it than is really in there. Some hosts load an instance at startup to scan the plug-in's properties and keep that instance open until the host quits.

Wolfram

[magicmusic]

I test with waveform if it scan double there should 6 entries, if scan once there should 3 entry.

But i notice now that waveform load all vsti from all active projects(in project tab) on start in 64 bit version. so it is important to close projects that are not need. on 32 bit version it seem load only project that is double click in all items in project. so 32 bit version use not so much RAM

[Uhotug]

Hi everyone,

we have made new public beta versions of BioTek and Collective which log wrong numbers produced by the audio processing to a file.
The log file is stored at:

[Windows] [User Folder]\AppData\Roaming\Tracktion\Biotek.log
[Linux] ~/.config/Tracktion/Biotek.log
[Mac] ~/Library/Logs/Tracktion/Biotek.log

(likewise for Collective)

When you experience the silence problem, it would be great if you could have a look into the log file and see if it reported something like:

Gain: 10 NaN
(could also be in a filter, a reverb etc.)

If you see any of those NaN entries, please send the log file to me in a DM or report it on tracktion.zendesk.com.

Get BioTek 1.6.0 public beta here:
https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... /?v=biotek

Get Collective 1.1.0 public beta here:
https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... collective

Thanks and best wishes,

Wolfram

Code: Select all

**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 31 Jul 2017 12:31:48pm

Gain: 445 NaN
BFilter: 4152 NaN
StereoAmp: 1038 NaN
OnePole: 615002 NaN
SFilter24: 2076 NaN
NaturalReverb: 440 NaN
Gain: 1857 NaN
BFilter: 40280 NaN
StereoAmp: 10070 NaN
OnePole: 2060890 NaN
SFilter24: 24802 NaN
NaturalReverb: 1132 NaN
Gain: 2283 NaN
BFilter: 49604 NaN
StereoAmp: 12401 NaN
OnePole: 2312794 NaN

Ubuntu 16.04, all current updates
Waveform 8.1.16 (8.2.0 not functional, with symptoms explained in different thread)

Project from scratch, 2 tracks with Creative:
1. with Jazz kit WMF, "Step clip: rock 1"
2. with Fingered Bass 2 EM, generated bass like "Techno 1"

The log is about ~10 sec after creating bass line (so bass line went silent)

Restarting waveform with the project, loop playing, changing patterns, moving the clip, changing presets, disable/enable Collective: 10 min no problem.

Removing Collective from the bass track, adding it again (so default preset): 10 seconds ok, then:

Code: Select all

**********************************************************
Collective 1.1.0 64-bit
Log started: 31 Jul 2017 12:49:07pm

SFilter24: 248 NaN
NaturalReverb: 9 NaN
Gain: 684 NaN
BFilter: 11992 NaN
StereoAmp: 2998 NaN
OnePole: 1167902 NaN
SFilter24: 3943 NaN
NaturalReverb: 870 NaN
Gain: 2406 NaN
BFilter: 17956 NaN
StereoAmp: 4489 NaN
OnePole: 2931230 NaN
SFilter24: 4742 NaN
NaturalReverb: 1732 NaN
Gain: 4128 NaN
BFilter: 23960 NaN
StereoAmp: 5990 NaN
OnePole: 4696606 NaN
SFilter24: 5990 NaN
NaturalReverb: 2413 NaN
Gain: 4872 NaN
OnePole: 5405214 NaN
NaturalReverb: 2658 NaN
Gain: 5324 NaN

Notes: drums continue playing. After Stop, there is some "post" sound from the second instance (each time after Play/stop).

I hope that can help finally pin the problem....

[dRowAudio]

I test with waveform if it scan double there should 6 entries, if scan once there should 3 entry.

But i notice now that waveform load all vsti from all active projects(in project tab) on start in 64 bit version. so it is important to close projects that are not need. on 32 bit version it seem load only project that is double click in all items in project. so 32 bit version use not so much RAM

Could you clarify what you are saying here please? There shouldn't be any difference between how the 32 and 64-bit versions handle Edit opening.

In either version, it certainly should only open Edits that are either opened explicitly from the Project page or load because they were open when the app was last closed. I.e, only Edits appearing in the tab bar should be open. Are you saying this isn't the case?

(N.B. there is a special case when you close an Edit that it may remain open in the background for a while whilst the audio preview is rendered but this doesn't sound like what you're describing here).

[magicmusic]

see screenshots that song testsong have only 3 collective. but as can see in log file, waveform load all VST from project test and agml too. and if i have more projects in the list, even more is load. 32 bit version do this not. only when the tab of other song is open, then of course this vst are load.

1 Aug 2017 18:48:00 Starting checking for updates
1 Aug 2017 18:48:00 Attempting to load VST: C:\Program Files\VstPlugins\Collective (64 bit).dll
1 Aug 2017 18:48:00 Creating VST instance: Collective (64 bit)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:00 Initialising VST: Collective (64 bit) (V1.1.0)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:00 Preset database loaded 47 presets in 654 ms seconds
1 Aug 2017 18:48:00 Attempting to load VST: C:\Program Files\VstPlugins\SampleTank 3.dll
1 Aug 2017 18:48:00 Creating VST instance: SampleTank 3
1 Aug 2017 18:48:01 Initialising VST: SampleTank 3 (V1.0.0.0)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:01 Finished checking for updates: 1 sec
1 Aug 2017 18:48:02 Attempting to load VST: C:\Program Files\VstPlugins\AGML2.dll
1 Aug 2017 18:48:02 Creating VST instance: AGML2
1 Aug 2017 18:48:02 Initialising VST: AGML2 (V2.3.2)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:03 Attempting to load VST: C:\Program Files\VstPlugins\Kontakt 5.dll
1 Aug 2017 18:48:03 Creating VST instance: Kontakt 5
1 Aug 2017 18:48:06 Initialising VST: Kontakt 5 (V5.6.6)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:08 Attempting to load VST: C:\Program Files\VstPlugins\MiniGrand_x64.dll
1 Aug 2017 18:48:09 Creating VST instance: MiniGrand_x64
1 Aug 2017 18:48:10 Initialising VST: MiniGrand_x64 (V1.2.7.0)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:10 Creating VST instance: Collective (64 bit)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:10 Initialising VST: Collective (64 bit) (V1.1.0)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:10 Creating VST instance: Collective (64 bit)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:10 Initialising VST: Collective (64 bit) (V1.1.0)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:10 Creating VST instance: Collective (64 bit)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:11 Initialising VST: Collective (64 bit) (V1.1.0)
1 Aug 2017 18:48:12 Loaded edit: testsong
1 Aug 2017 18:48:22 Showing log file

[zzz00m]

Hi everyone,

we have made new public beta versions of BioTek and Collective which log wrong numbers produced by the audio processing to a file.
The log file is stored at:

[Windows] [User Folder]\AppData\Roaming\Tracktion\Biotek.log
[Linux] ~/.config/Tracktion/Biotek.log
[Mac] ~/Library/Logs/Tracktion/Biotek.log

(likewise for Collective)

When you experience the silence problem, it would be great if you could have a look into the log file and see if it reported something like:

Gain: 10 NaN
(could also be in a filter, a reverb etc.)

If you see any of those NaN entries, please send the log file to me in a DM or report it on tracktion.zendesk.com.

Get BioTek 1.6.0 public beta here:
https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... /?v=biotek

Get Collective 1.1.0 public beta here:
https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... collective

Thanks and best wishes,

Wolfram

Happened again today. No data in Collective.log again. Project with only 2 instances of Collective. Instance #1 went silent.

Waveform 6.2.0 (64-bit); Collective 1.1.0 (64-bit); Windows 10 Pro 1607.