MPE support public preview revision 15139 (ACE, Bazille, Diva, Hive)

[tasmaniandevil]

Also, there seems to be a bug (I'm using the beta version you linked to in this thread) where the midi table is not displaying the mappings for presets.

Can you explain what you mean by that?
The MIDI table isn't a per-preset table. The MIDI table is global for all presets and instances of the plugin.

[Viktor [TUC]]

As the main u-he preset editor guy, I want to stress that there really isn't an easy "make all presets cool for MPE" solution, and that goes for adding Control A assignments to hundreds of older presets as well, it's simply a huge task to do all that for an MPE update. At some point we want to provide 10-20 MPE versions of factory presets, per plug-in, we're working on that. But we can't make it so that all presets play well for MPE and simultaneously for non-MPE users.

Viktor

[Fannon]

As the main u-he preset editor guy, I want to stress that there really isn't an easy "make all presets cool for MPE" solution, and that goes for adding Control A assignments to hundreds of older presets as well, it's simply a huge task to do all that for an MPE update. At some point we want to provide 10-20 MPE versions of factory presets, per plug-in, we're working on that. But we can't make it so that all presets play well for MPE and simultaneously for non-MPE users.

Viktor

And I fully understand that - even up to the point where it's probably very difficult to even build MPE patches that work well across the different MPE devices. For example, with a LinnStrument you'd use Timbre different than with a Seaboard I assume.

So I kind of see it as my own responsibility to make existing patches MPE capable and learn how to do that in a way that it fits well for my particular instrument and playing style / skill. For this, the most helpful thing is if the synthesizer and the existing patches make it convenient to do this.

What I would see as helping with this:

• Patches have macros which control the tone in ways that make sense to control with Timbre or Pressure (but they don't need to be mapped to them right away).

• There are dedicated modulation sources for MPE timbre, MPE pressure and I can use them to also drive the macros (and how much).

• There need to be enough modulation slots, so I don't have to replace existing modulations in order to add my own MPE modulations (looking at you, Diva).

[pdxindy]

There need to be enough modulation slots, so I don't have to replace existing modulations in order to add my own MPE modulations (looking at you, Diva).

That's easy in Bitwig and CLAP Diva.

[Fannon]

There need to be enough modulation slots, so I don't have to replace existing modulations in order to add my own MPE modulations (looking at you, Diva).

That's easy in Bitwig and CLAP Diva.

Yes, true. I have Bitwig and that's very nice about it.

But I'd prefer to have this within the synth and baked into the patches themselfes

[AStrangeWedding]

Hey guys !

I've tried all 4 plugins in Live 11 with Osmose, it works but I've been struggling with few features that I really miss ! One of them is to be able to modulate the VCA volume with pressure or cc74 (but this could be extend to modulating any parameters with one or both MPE axes).

I was told that bitwig and CLAP had a way of working with polyphonic modulators, so I figure "let's try to emulate the feature this way !". Sadly I can't make it work properly. When I use the Expression modulator on Diva's VCA volume, it appears that it isn't working in polyphony, meaning the pressure values of each voice are fighting each other, resulting in jumps in the parameter value.

I should mention that I'm very new to bitwig so I'm probably doing it wrong but I've looked at many documentation source and I can't find the solution... Diva is set this way : track channel is all -> same, MPE disabled in bitwig, enabled in Diva and the set up process described in the first post is fallowed to the letter.

I will post an in depth review when i will have this and few other matter sorted out

Thanks in advance !

[pdxindy]

I should mention that I'm very new to bitwig so I'm probably doing it wrong but I've looked at many documentation source and I can't find the solution... Diva is set this way : track channel is all -> same, MPE disabled in bitwig, enabled in Diva and the set up process described in the first post is fallowed to the letter.

I will post an in depth review when i will have this and few other matter sorted out

Thanks in advance !

If you are using the CLAP version of Diva, you should not even see an MPE option in Bitwig

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Jus a suggestion: but it may be worthwhile having an "MPE Setup Guide" section in each of the manuals that covers the procedure for various popular DAWs, including which plugin format is recommended in that DAW, any DAW setup, setting up the Ctrl A/B settings in the plugin, etc. It's not always straightforward as implementation steps will vary from plugin to plugin and DAW to DAW and even format to format.

[tasmaniandevil]

Just a suggestion: but it may be worthwhile having an "MPE Setup Guide" section in each of the manuals that covers the procedure for various popular DAWs.

I have mentioned this in the first post of this thread. We had the idea of providing such a guide, either as a section in the user guide, or as an FAQ entry on the website. This would be more flexible, as we could adjust the information easily when things change.
But we don't have access to all the MPE controllers out there, and each one seems to handle things just a little bit differently. We also might not even be aware of every host that supports MPE.
That's why I asked for help from the community. If someone already found the perfect MPE setup for his controller and host, it would be great if they could post it here, so we can collect information about as many configurations as possible.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

C'mon forum members with MPE controllers! Help U-he and other users. Post the setup instructions for your DAWs+U-he plugins!

[SteveElbows]

Most MPE controllers are actually very similar, their default MPE settings will tend to work in the same sort of way and differences are mostly down to differences in how you actually play them/the nature of their surface which is mostly stuff that doesnt have synth-specific ramifications. If people dont understand the MPE spec or DAW-specific MPE considerations then that could cause issues if they start messing around with the config of their MPE controller to use non-standard values (eg CC other than 74 for MPE Y/Slide, poly aftertouch MIDI messages instead of channel pressure messages) so in nearly every scenario I would say leave things on default in controller settings unless you know what you are doing.

The biggest exception to that is the Osmose but only because by default its Ext MIDI output is set to send the pressure/aftertouch part of MPE via the initial range of key travel, and CC74 from the final aftertouch range of key motion. Personally I think Expressive E should probably have done it the other way around because this causes some confusion or the need to change default settings on the Osmose, but again this isnt a u-he specific issue.

I already posted a brief Ableton guide, but I am happy to repeat myself and include some non-u-he specific additional DAW MPE setup steps in future, just not right at this moment.

More broadly I still think that my default non-DAW-specific advice would for most scenarios be to switch the MPE mode on inside the u-he plugin, and in the DAWs own settings for that instance of the plugin if your DAW has that feature, and not then bother having to change pitch bend range settings manually in the u-he plugin. Then that just leaves setting up cc74, which again I would think would be the same for all DAWs.

Maybe I didnt think something through and there are actually some flaws with that approach, but the above is a combination of keeping things as simple as I think they can be, and treating u-he stuff like I would treat pretty much every other MPE synth plugin I've ever used. Please do correct me if I got something wrong!

[SteveElbows]

The other possible exception to what I've just said about the MPE controller settings side of things is probably devices where the user can choose whether MPE Y is set to relative or absolute mode. That does have ramifications for the synths and preset design for those synths, but again it sort of requires the user to already be somewhat familiar with that side of things on their MPE controller in general and what the implications are when used with synths that do or do not allow the synth preset design to take account of which mode MPE Y is in. For now my approach might be to ignore getting into explaining this completely - unless your synth has fancy MPE Y options for harnessing these two different modes in different ways you might just confuse users further by trying to explain it, and the u-he stuff is hardly the only synth that isnt sophisticated in this area and requires the user to have some sense of how MPE Y works and what setting on their controller is best for them and their playing style.

[AStrangeWedding]

I have mentioned this in the first post of this thread. We had the idea of providing such a guide, either as a section in the user guide, or as an FAQ entry on the website. This would be more flexible, as we could adjust the information easily when things change.
But we don't have access to all the MPE controllers out there, and each one seems to handle things just a little bit differently. We also might not even be aware of every host that supports MPE.
That's why I asked for help from the community. If someone already found the perfect MPE setup for his controller and host, it would be great if they could post it here, so we can collect information about as many configurations as possible.

I feel it is a bit untrue that MPE controlers work all in a different way. Or maybe they have technical differences, leading to different behaviors, but as far as their set up goes there should not be any differences (and if we want to make MPE a new standard, their should really not be any differences in the set up, aiming for the most plug and play type workflow). Honestly, I work daily with a push3, a seaboard and an Osmose to test out our plugins and there aren't any differences in the basic set up (without going into the fine tuning of the controler).

That being said, I feel there is are massive differences in MPE workflow on the DAW's side... I think this is where we should really try to make a guide, from users with strong experience, able to tell you all the little combobox to check and hidden menus to access for a smooth experience.

I should mention that I'm very new to bitwig so I'm probably doing it wrong but I've looked at many documentation source and I can't find the solution... Diva is set this way : track channel is all -> same, MPE disabled in bitwig, enabled in Diva and the set up process described in the first post is fallowed to the letter.

I will post an in depth review when i will have this and few other matter sorted out

Thanks in advance !

If you are using the CLAP version of Diva, you should not even see an MPE option in Bitwig

Ok... I'll will try to invastigate this matter today, thanks !

[AStrangeWedding]

Ok, I solve my problem with the polyphonic control of Diva in CLAP. Turns out that we still need to send some information to bitwig in order for them to make the script that would recognize Osmose as an MPE controller ! I tried with Seaboard and it worked like a charm

[AStrangeWedding]

Setting up MPE controllers in Ableton Live 11 (Osmose, Seaboard, Push3)

I'm using Live 11.3.13, make sure to use a compatible version of live for Push3 (11.3 or higher if I remember correctly)

Step 1: Set up the controllers in live

Go to preferences, then to the Link, Tempo, MIDI tab.
Make sure to check the MPE boxes corresponding to your controller you wich to use in MPE mode.
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Capture d’écran 2023-11-24 à 11.36.44.png

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Note : Some controllers have more than one port.
- Osmose should ONLY listen to "port 1" (can also be named "Osmose (play)" depending on your OS)
- Push 3 seems to work as an MPE controller without having to set anything

You can exit the preference menu

From now on, this routine should be the same for all MPE controllers.

Step 2: Set up the track

By default, Live is setting up new track in a way that works with MPE. Still, here are the key element you need to have in order :

- Make sure MIDI from is set to "All Ins" or your controller's port (e.g. "Osmose (play)")
- Make sure MIDI from is set to "All channels"
- Make sure the track you want to control is armed (the lowest box on the chennel should be on and red (see picture bellow)
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Capture d’écran 2023-11-24 à 11.47.51.png

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Step 3: Set up the plugin
Note: this routine is the same for any plugin format: VST2, VST3, AU, AU2

Click and drag your plugin from the "plug-ins" browser
Right click on the plugin container and check "enable MPE mode" as shown on the picture bellow
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Capture d’écran 2023-11-24 à 11.50.25.png

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Your DAW is now set to use your plugin in MPE mode

Note: Some additional set up may be required from within the plugin

Step 4: Using Live MIDI devices with MPE

First, I strongly recommend using MPE control to monitor visually any MPE modulations. I set up all my MPE track this way (one instance works just fine but I like to visualise every MPE axes at the same time for troubleshooting purpose.

With One instance

Capture d’écran 2023-11-24 à 12.24.08.png

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For all MPE axes

Capture d’écran 2023-11-24 à 11.50.06.png

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To my knowledge, all MIDI Effects ahead of your plugin passes MPE informations to it (worth doing some research though). Please note that some of them may behave in an unexpected way (read exemple below)
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Capture d’écran 2023-11-24 à 12.12.05.png

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In the past I ran into troubles using some of them, mostly due to lack of feature more than bugs. Here is one to give an exemple :
When using the arpeggiator, if you set the "steps", it will play the note (or group of note) you are pressing on your controller, then play the same notes but X octave higher. Because the arp is creating new voices through new midi channels, only the first note will receive the MPE modulation from your controller. In other words, only the first note will be controlled in MPE.

Good to read:
MPE in live: https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... in-Live-11
Live 11 Manual: https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/welco ... me-to-live