upgrade price??
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
Given headquest's particular circumstances (buying multiple copies for an educational institution?) I can understand how he had got to consider any software purchases carefully. Are Mackie offering any kind of educational copy deal (cheaper nfr copies for instance?). I haven't seen any information regarding this personally - maybe some will be forthcoming.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Headquest-- OK, I'll do it again-- you're being a hypocrite. You claim that I've judged you and others, and then you go ahead and pass judgement on me. Hypocrite.
If you want to know how I am in general, that's a pretty involved answer, and you'll certainly never get a feel for it over a music forum. I'm kind and generous, usually to a fault. I am supportive and nurturing, which may partially explain why I ended up being a teacher (some days I still wonder, mind!). Even in my own life, though, I DO tend to enjoy a lively discussion more than a debate, but if such discussions turn into debate, then so be it. I've been known to admit I'm wrong, but I don't just do it to appease anybody.
If you want to know how I "am" (as in my character) with regards to my jumping on yours or other similar posts on an internet forum, it's very basic and it comes down to this: I have a knack for spotting inconsistencies in logic, and I have a feel for the implied messages of a person's words (verbal or written). I have a bit of a compulsion (not always a healthy one) to refute faulty logic, and it's not always meant to be anything more sinister than that. I've even been known to play devil's advocate and argue on the other side of a point I actually believe in.
So, what you've witnessed in this and other threads is simply my obsessive compulsion to make sure people's eyes don't have the wool over them.
For example, what you tried to do in your last post is put up a red herring, whether you wanted to or not. Instead of addressing the questions posed, you are pointing a finger at me and crying "You are a bad person!" Fine. I'm an asshole. Now back to the questions I didn't see getting answered:
- What are Adobe's future plans?
- What are Propellerheads' future plans?
- Compared to your software of choice, how can T2's measly $150 be seen as a rip-off?
- Do you always base your purchasing decisions on what the future may hold?
It's not my "job" to debate with you, headquest, but I chose to. It's not your "job" to give people a weighted checklist to go through when deciding, but you chose to. Since neither of us have a particular agenda beyond our personal perspectives, I don't see why my refutation makes me a 'bad guy', it just makes me a guy who disagrees with you and questions the consistency in your post.
I'm sorry you're taking it personally, and believe me I know it'd be hard not to because the points I'm referring to are directly related to your (and only your) post, so it's personal I guess by default. So when I say, "Don't take it personally" I only mean that I would have had the same response no matter whose name was to the left of that post. When it comes to debating people, I don't pick favourites.
With regards to software purchases, I can see why you'd be paranoid about making the right choice (nobody likes to be in charge of thousands of dollars on someone else's behalf and then have to answer for it) but hedging bets on the future is not the right way to make a purchase, either. If T1 didn't offer what you needed at purchase time, and you didn't have enough details about T2, you made absolutely the right choice by not buying it. That's the end of that story, and that was a discussion in another thread. Since headquest didn't bring it up himself, I don't really want to get into it.
But, just to respond to diverdee-- I understand, too, which is why I think he made the right decision when it came to crunch time. When I submit purchases for academic materials (ie. new textbooks for Math), I have to do so without knowing what the next edition of the text is going to contain. Sometimes after making a purchase, another company may publish a textbook that's even more tightly integrated with the curriculum that I would have preferred. But, when that happens I know I made the best decision possible using the information I had at the time and that's all I could do.
Greg
If you want to know how I am in general, that's a pretty involved answer, and you'll certainly never get a feel for it over a music forum. I'm kind and generous, usually to a fault. I am supportive and nurturing, which may partially explain why I ended up being a teacher (some days I still wonder, mind!). Even in my own life, though, I DO tend to enjoy a lively discussion more than a debate, but if such discussions turn into debate, then so be it. I've been known to admit I'm wrong, but I don't just do it to appease anybody.
If you want to know how I "am" (as in my character) with regards to my jumping on yours or other similar posts on an internet forum, it's very basic and it comes down to this: I have a knack for spotting inconsistencies in logic, and I have a feel for the implied messages of a person's words (verbal or written). I have a bit of a compulsion (not always a healthy one) to refute faulty logic, and it's not always meant to be anything more sinister than that. I've even been known to play devil's advocate and argue on the other side of a point I actually believe in.
So, what you've witnessed in this and other threads is simply my obsessive compulsion to make sure people's eyes don't have the wool over them.
For example, what you tried to do in your last post is put up a red herring, whether you wanted to or not. Instead of addressing the questions posed, you are pointing a finger at me and crying "You are a bad person!" Fine. I'm an asshole. Now back to the questions I didn't see getting answered:
- What are Adobe's future plans?
- What are Propellerheads' future plans?
- Compared to your software of choice, how can T2's measly $150 be seen as a rip-off?
- Do you always base your purchasing decisions on what the future may hold?
It's not my "job" to debate with you, headquest, but I chose to. It's not your "job" to give people a weighted checklist to go through when deciding, but you chose to. Since neither of us have a particular agenda beyond our personal perspectives, I don't see why my refutation makes me a 'bad guy', it just makes me a guy who disagrees with you and questions the consistency in your post.
I'm sorry you're taking it personally, and believe me I know it'd be hard not to because the points I'm referring to are directly related to your (and only your) post, so it's personal I guess by default. So when I say, "Don't take it personally" I only mean that I would have had the same response no matter whose name was to the left of that post. When it comes to debating people, I don't pick favourites.
With regards to software purchases, I can see why you'd be paranoid about making the right choice (nobody likes to be in charge of thousands of dollars on someone else's behalf and then have to answer for it) but hedging bets on the future is not the right way to make a purchase, either. If T1 didn't offer what you needed at purchase time, and you didn't have enough details about T2, you made absolutely the right choice by not buying it. That's the end of that story, and that was a discussion in another thread. Since headquest didn't bring it up himself, I don't really want to get into it.
But, just to respond to diverdee-- I understand, too, which is why I think he made the right decision when it came to crunch time. When I submit purchases for academic materials (ie. new textbooks for Math), I have to do so without knowing what the next edition of the text is going to contain. Sometimes after making a purchase, another company may publish a textbook that's even more tightly integrated with the curriculum that I would have preferred. But, when that happens I know I made the best decision possible using the information I had at the time and that's all I could do.
Greg
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
greg ... you are SUCH a teacher you know ???
slainte rob
slainte
rob-
- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Greg, I think that you are finding apparent fault in my logic because I didn't explain two things clearly in the particular post you picked up on:
Firstly, my list of questions was hierarchical in the sense that if "your" answer to the first question is that, yes, the software in its current form meets your needs (and assuming it is bug-free), then knowing the developers vision for the future is redundant as an issue. It is only important in the cases where the software currently only partly meets your needs. I should have made that more clear.
Secondly, when I personally evaluate a potential software purchase I am considering three seperate markets:
a) my own use as a musician (budget - not an issue if I really like the software)
b) educational bulk orders for our music service (budget: tax payers' money, so I need to convince my boss that it is a necessary purchase)
c) students buying copies themselves for home use (budget: as little as possible).
At $80 Tracktion was a compelling purchase for all three of those markets.
In terms of software overall, this is where its at for me in the decisions I have made:
a) as in my signature below plus VST plug-ins
b) Tracktion 1, Reason 2, Sibelius 3 in use in the Music Service
c) Was Tracktion 1, but Tracktion 2 is possibly too expensive for most students to invest in, as the age group I teach electronic music to starts at around 10-year olds.
Regarding your other specific questions:
1. Adobe have made it clear that their intention is to fully integrate Audition with their other multimedia and video products, and in the year since purchasing the title they have made significant improvements to it. I am entirely happy with it (personal use here, not educational) in its existing form, and have no specific feature requests or bugs to report.
2. The props plan:
- to extend Remote MIDI control to further products
- add another five modules to Reason in the next update
- Give ReBirth an overhaul
- Update the truly outstanding "Teaching Music with Reason" school curriculum to incorporate the advances made in R3.
- produce more refills using their new "hypersampling" technoilogy as pioneered in their recent drum kit refill
3. Live is for home/personal use (see above) Tracktion was for students to invest in. Hence the budget is different.
BUT you are putting words in my mouth Greg, because I have never said or even implied that Tracktion is a rip-off. I still think it is great value. But it does not suit my needs in its new form.
4. See above. Future plans are only important if you are not happy with the existing program. I am happy with 3 or the four programs discussed, Live 4 being the exception. But Ableton are improving this quickly and in impressive ways, so I shall be sticking with it for personal use for the time being.
Firstly, my list of questions was hierarchical in the sense that if "your" answer to the first question is that, yes, the software in its current form meets your needs (and assuming it is bug-free), then knowing the developers vision for the future is redundant as an issue. It is only important in the cases where the software currently only partly meets your needs. I should have made that more clear.
Secondly, when I personally evaluate a potential software purchase I am considering three seperate markets:
a) my own use as a musician (budget - not an issue if I really like the software)
b) educational bulk orders for our music service (budget: tax payers' money, so I need to convince my boss that it is a necessary purchase)
c) students buying copies themselves for home use (budget: as little as possible).
At $80 Tracktion was a compelling purchase for all three of those markets.
In terms of software overall, this is where its at for me in the decisions I have made:
a) as in my signature below plus VST plug-ins
b) Tracktion 1, Reason 2, Sibelius 3 in use in the Music Service
c) Was Tracktion 1, but Tracktion 2 is possibly too expensive for most students to invest in, as the age group I teach electronic music to starts at around 10-year olds.
Regarding your other specific questions:
1. Adobe have made it clear that their intention is to fully integrate Audition with their other multimedia and video products, and in the year since purchasing the title they have made significant improvements to it. I am entirely happy with it (personal use here, not educational) in its existing form, and have no specific feature requests or bugs to report.
2. The props plan:
- to extend Remote MIDI control to further products
- add another five modules to Reason in the next update
- Give ReBirth an overhaul
- Update the truly outstanding "Teaching Music with Reason" school curriculum to incorporate the advances made in R3.
- produce more refills using their new "hypersampling" technoilogy as pioneered in their recent drum kit refill
3. Live is for home/personal use (see above) Tracktion was for students to invest in. Hence the budget is different.
BUT you are putting words in my mouth Greg, because I have never said or even implied that Tracktion is a rip-off. I still think it is great value. But it does not suit my needs in its new form.
4. See above. Future plans are only important if you are not happy with the existing program. I am happy with 3 or the four programs discussed, Live 4 being the exception. But Ableton are improving this quickly and in impressive ways, so I shall be sticking with it for personal use for the time being.
Last edited by headquest on Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
headquest ... you are SUCH a teacher you know ???
slainte
rob
slainte
rob-
- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
This is kind of fun to read, but I don't think I want to participate. Greg in one corner, headquest in another, and me watching. I'm tired of answering anyway. Go on boys!
Koolkeys
Koolkeys
My host is better than your host
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Nah, I'm done. Headquest's last post made sense and I think I was just misunderstanding him. Plus, he answered the questions I *did* have.
Greg
Greg
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
rob-
- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Hey, I think the best bit was where you took my comment "what are you like " literally! In the UK that phrase is a subtle way of saying 
, but you gave this really in depth analysis of yourself... and you sound just like me!!
, but you gave this really in depth analysis of yourself... and you sound just like me!! -
- KVRAF
- 10815 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from UK
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Well T1.6 is still here, and I hope to still use it for one or two collaberations I am involved in with other forum members right here.djsubject wrote:wheres tracktion gone?Live, Reason, Audition, Sibelius
But sad to say I've decided T2 won't be appearing on my PC in the near future. I will check future releases to see if my Ozonic controller actually works with them (I'm sure Jules will fix this - did you let him know there is an issue?) and I'm happy to help if I can.
In terms of considering alternatives in the meantime I looked at a couple of other options, but... One thing I'm beginning to realise is that, for personal use, I'm not sure that a linear sequencer actually suits me so well as a pattern based one. Although I had some bad problems with Live 4 when it first came out (prematurely in my view... they should have spent longer getting it sorted prior to release
) it has managed to draw me back like a magnet... I think that it actually suits my workflow better. For audio recording, linear is obviously the thing, and I personally use Audition for that; it rocks! For MIDI sequencing a pattern based paradigm seems more intuitive to me.
But I'm hanging in, and although disappointed by T2 (for a number of reasons - not just one missing feature) I still have high hopes for Tracktion's future and will continue to watch and hope...
Regarding the signature, Live disappeared for a while but is back! I should probably ditch the signature altogether, but while it's there I like it to state/reflect the software that I am personally using right at this moment.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Word.pHz wrote:greg ... you are SUCH a teacher you know ???
slainte
Just finished teaching a French class. Am I bilingual? Nope. Such a weird world when you're back on the supply teaching list. <chuckle> We did improv, so that was pretty fun.
Greg
Last edited by Lunch Money on Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
PS, this would probably be a really good moment to say a very big THANK YOU to everyone in the Tracktion community who has helped me and given support during my Tracktion journey thus far. I've been grateful so many times, and think this community is a great place.
Over and out... but I'll no doubt be back!
headquest
Over and out... but I'll no doubt be back!
headquest