free lunch

[maximilians1]

This is puzzling, why not just sell the key for the demo version for $100 U.S. to nfr and new users? the T1 price plus $20 upgrade price. Why change distribution methods all the sudden, I'm a happy T1 user and will do the online upgrade(since I live in Canada) but I think some flexibility and a rethink of their distribution is called for here. Its probably a little more complicated than that though with all the manufacturing of boxed sets,distribution contracts, and the like. i just hope everybody gets sorted out soon, the buzz from the nfr created a lot of excitement and I hope mackie can hold on to all the new users.

[Graeme]

Where are you at?

Almeria province. On the advice of Mackie, I talked to the distributor in Madrid and he didn't even know what I was talking about.

...and the other one, the main Mackie dist here, were not sure but most likely around the 200€

Hmmm, I wonder if that's the guy I spoke to. At least he would have heard about it from me . €200 is some $256 - about $100 more than the street price in the USA (and presumably, no rebate either). Seems to me that T2 is losing its attracktion to this market.

Buying it from the USA would be almost the equivalent of buying it on-line as no "Mackie distributor" gets his share of the sale. Wouldn`t it? so I see this is going in a very bad direction both to Mackie and Tracktion.

Yes - technically a 'grey import' - but it's not like hardware that might need returning for repair. I have no doubt it's also technically illegal to do this, for the reason you mention - the distributor isn't going to make a bean out of it. Quite honestly, it's not going to lose me any sleep - they brought all this on themselves.

I can`t beleive they put so much effort into getting people from the UK and Europe to try the NFR version and then deal with us like that.

Exactly - extremely poor public relations (as I have said elsewhere on these forums). This is the first time I have dealt with Mackie - it's likely to be my last.

I´m off to un-install Tracktion and look for another audio host.

I've already got more than one other host - but I was intrigued by Tracktion and after they added hardware control support, I thought it had the potential to speed up my workflow, hence my interest.

[audiobot202]

We are trying to come up with a reasonable program for T1 upgrades for Europe and beyond. Worst case is there will be no rebate for T1 upgrades (not our preferred approach). Best case is that it will reflect the US rebate. We did not want to hold up the US launch of T2 for this. Obviously handling rebates in 50 countries is much more difficult than handling rebates in one country.

There will not be a full T2 download version from Mackie, and no T2 stripped download version (save the T1 upgrade). T2 is a retail product. Please support your favorite retailer.

Bottom line: NFRs, please go to your retailer for your copy of T2.

dernil
Mackie Dude

I'm really really surprised that these issues were not sorted out sooner. There has been months to work on this or at least discuss problems around the watercooler.
I can appreciate that handling foriegn curencies and juggling rebates is painful and probably quite slow...but really, that's kinda the whole problem with the marketing approach don't you think? If I want to buy my Mackie mixer I have to go to a retailer. That makes sense. But software is infinitely replicable and it can be delivered in various forms that are far more convenient than having to gripe with the global currency exchange market !
I really believe that you are alienating a massive audience for this software. It's been stated so many times...a lot of us either don't have access to a good retailer (sometimes they do live 700 km away), can't afford the pirate prices some retailers charge for software or are sick of waiting for a product to slowly filter through the beureaucracy that is the distributor/importer/retailer network. The pace is absolutely glacial mate.
I know it's official because you've stated it in no uncertain terms, but it's disappointing that T2 will not be available as a lite download at any price.
Sequencer competition is just around the corner I'm sure, so good luck.
Oh and..this is not about NFR licenses. This is about availability of a product to anyone. Any new user. Any newbie that decides to surf to your website from some remote corner of the world.

Steve

[silicon/silicium]

There will not be a full T2 download version from Mackie, and no T2 stripped download version (save the T1 upgrade). T2 is a retail product. Please support your favorite retailer.

welcome to a world of communication
T2 is a retail product, a product that is expensive due to a lot of details from another age, a product that need distributors, import taxes and shipping time while you can load its 30Mo in 30 sec and pay for it in 30 others sec... that's an update, a real progress in distribution world

[Germ777]

I can appreciate that handling foriegn curencies and juggling rebates is painful and probably quite slow...but really, that's kinda the whole problem with the marketing approach don't you think?

If it was only the currency market then it would be Ok as the exchange rate is kind of steady the world over. Specially now in Europe we have a very strong currecy and the exchange favors shopping in the USA, but most (if not all) retailers use a "direct" exchange rate. that is 1$ = 1€ = 1 Pound which is not real. Then you have to add the local Taxes which vary among regions and you have a huge difference in the price.
I just can not beleive Mackie did not foresee this in all these months of planning strategies.

This is puzzling, why not just sell the key for the demo version for $100 U.S. to nfr and new users? the T1 price plus $20 upgrade price. Why change distribution methods all the sudden, I'm a happy T1 user and will do the online upgrade(since I live in Canada) but I think some flexibility and a rethink of their distribution is called for here

Damm!!!! Where have I heard this before???????

[audiobot202]

I just can not beleive Mackie did not foresee this in all these months of planning strategies.

The evidence seems to be mounting that they are not that organised and really do favour their US market.
T1 grew up in a homegrown, but empowering environment. With the release of T2 it has suddenly become another somewhat expensive sequencer in another box. It's about to go head to head with some very wealthy competition and this time they have much better distro networks and their products are very feature rich. I've said it before. Mackie do good hardware. They don't seem to know a whole lot about software.
I won't be buying T2 unless they drastically alter their policy, but I will watch with interest how it fares in the physical market.

(do you all remember when the trolls were saying that Tracktion had become Macktion? It's happened)

[titanium]

Because I posted earlier with an <ahem> rather unpopular opinion about "NFR whiners", I wanted to say that I've changed my position on this, after reading the latest statements from Mackie, and in light of the crappy deal that non-US retail buyers would be/are getting (which includes NFRs).

IMO, Mackie is making a big mistake allowing/forcing/whatever the non-US vendors to charge the equivalent of about USD $240. It feels a little like price gouging. Of course, many prospective non-US buyers would likely decline to purchase at that price, since it's much less competitive against established products. So, if they don't address this situation, Mackie will have ended up shooting themselves in the foot w/r/t non-US market penetration.

Why can't Mackie tie their pricing to the current exchange rate? Mackie and Co. get their nickel, the vendors get theirs, and the non-US buyer gets equivalent value to a US buyer. Then again, maybe it already is, and the vendors are just greedy. In that case, shame on the vendors.

I'm still of the opinion that NFR users that want a rebate are asking for a free lunch, and they should just buy at the best retail price they can find, ...HOWEVER... the highly inflated non-US pricing is just plain wrong!!.

Lastly, (and then I'll STFU) I think everybody involved would benefit from an downloadable no-plug version (not an upgrade), with the non-US price tied to the current USD exchange rate, as is common with online vendors in non-US countries. Of course, contracts with the plug vendors may preclude such an arrangement, dunno.

[audiobot202]

IMO, Mackie is making a big mistake allowing/forcing/whatever the non-US vendors to charge the equivalent of about USD $240. It feels a little like price gouging.

Indeed. And the worst thing for Mackie and Jules is that they never see those extra pirate markups from overseas vendors in their own pockets. Kinda makes you wonder what the point in doing it is? It can't be for money !!

Lastly, (and then I'll STFU) I think everybody involved would benefit from an downloadable no-plug version (not an upgrade), with the non-US price tied to the current USD exchange rate, as is common with online vendors in non-US countries. Of course, contracts with the plug vendors may preclude such an arrangement, dunno.

I can think of no other reason that they would not allow a lite downloadable version. Perhaps they need to shift so many units for their 3rd party plugin bundlers. I'm not privvy to the information. It's the only logical reason I can think of, but the official statement from Dirnil makes me think that they will never allow it to be a download for non US customers despite any 3rd party contracts they may have.
I can't see how this strategy is going to expose Tracktion to a global audience in the best possible way. It just seems like a really illogical way of handling things.

And Mackie guy, if you're reading this far into the thread...as someone else said 'Welcome to the world of Communication'
It's about time someone made an official statement without all the former mystery. Sheesh. Are you guys shy or what?

[headquest]

I agree with you there, audiobot. It still seems that information gets leaked out in dribs and drabs like this. I think it's a poor way of relaying important purchasing information to customers... most of whom probably never come near KVR

[mcnelson]

I'm a registered T1 owner, in the UK.

So, NFR users in the USA get a rebate on the full boxed T2 and I don't??? (as yet?)

Dammit Mackie, my ass hurts from the raping!!!

[dernil]

I'm a registered T1 owner, in the UK.

So, NFR users in the USA get a rebate on the full boxed T2 and I don't??? (as yet?)

Dammit Mackie, my ass hurts from the raping!!!

No. NFRs in USA do not get a rebate, only T1 paid users get a rebate. No NFRs are supposed to get a rebate. If they did, it was due to sunspots or some other unforeseen electrical event/computer glitch.

dernil
Mackie Dude

[braj]

I'm a registered T1 owner, in the UK.

So, NFR users in the USA get a rebate on the full boxed T2 and I don't??? (as yet?)

Dammit Mackie, my ass hurts from the raping!!!

No. NFRs in USA do not get a rebate, only T1 paid users get a rebate. No NFRs are supposed to get a rebate. If they did, it was due to sunspots or some other unforeseen electrical event/computer glitch.

dernil
Mackie Dude

But I thought there was a $30 NFR rebate? Wasn't there?

[diverdee]

I'm a registered T1 owner, in the UK.

So, NFR users in the USA get a rebate on the full boxed T2 and I don't??? (as yet?)

Dammit Mackie, my ass hurts from the raping!!!

No. NFRs in USA do not get a rebate, only T1 paid users get a rebate. No NFRs are supposed to get a rebate. If they did, it was due to sunspots or some other unforeseen electrical event/computer glitch.

dernil
Mackie Dude

Another cock up?

I have only an NFR license, and I don't get offered to upgrade for $20, I only get an offer for a $30 rebate with retail purchase:
"$30 Rebate
With this rebate certificate, you are entitled to a $30 mail-in rebate, valid with purchase of the Tracktion 2 Retail Bundle from an authorized Mackie dealer between April 15, 2005 and June 30, 2005. You must be a resident of the US to qualify. Proof of purchase will be required, and rebates must be postmarked by August 31, 2005"

Am I doing something wrong, or was the above incorrect?

And that wasn't the only instance of this.
Don't get me wrong - if people aren't offered an NFR rebate ok - it seemed too good to be true anyway, but still another cock up?
Anymore 4 anymore?

[Meffy]

No NFRs are supposed to get a rebate. If they did, it was due to sunspots or some other unforeseen electrical event/computer glitch.

Sunspot, I think. I got offered a small rebate, and reckoned all NFRs got it -- apologies for possibly putting y'all Mackistas on the spot by mentioning it. I won't be taking advantage of the discount, even if it's still offered. Not because it isn't a great product (it appears to be) but because I have enough hosts. I do appreciate the NFR, which let me see what Tracktion was about the paws-on way.

Not every NFR license will generate a would-be customer, but some of them went to educate non-customers so we can better recommend Tracktion to people who ask what host would best suit them. :-) Indirect benefit, but a benefit nonetheless.

Meffy

[mandolarian]

There will not be a full T2 download version from Mackie, and no T2 stripped download version (save the T1 upgrade). T2 is a retail product. Please support your favorite retailer.

Thanks for welcoming us to the 20th century for those that missed it. Obviously you smart Mackie guys know something. This internet thing really is just a fad.

Oh, and just so you know, my 'favourite retailer' has no clue about T2 boxes. And they're less than 70 miles from Woodinville. Albeit in a strange and foreign country.

Hope you can keep Macktion in action long enough to reassess your vintage marketing methods.