KVR Audio

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:52 pm

I managed to drag myself away from my daughter for a while and came up with these examples for Mid-Side compression versus ordinary compression.

Compare these, ponder, ask questions and enjoy:

Original clip, composed in 15 minutes especially for this demonstration purpose. It ended up sounding like something from the old demo scene circa 1990... sorry 'bout that.

Ordinary stereo compression on the master buss. There is a low pass side-chain filter to enhance the pumping to demonstrate the effect I'm after.

Mid-Side compression. Basically it's the same as above but I first split the signal into separate mid and side signals, then I fed each into it's own compressor and then decoded the signal back to stereo. This technique is kind of silly as it produces some nasty mid-side signal difference distortion or something. It kind of makes the stereo field sound very separated and unconnected. Hence, the next technique is MUCH better to use..

Mid controlling Side signal. Now this is where it gets much more interesting and useful. I have setup the chain so that the MID signal has it's own compressor where the side-chain is fed equal amounts of Mid+Side signal, so basically the ordinary stereo signal. However, the SIDE channel's compressor side-chain gets fed only a mid signal. In addition I added a low pass filter so that it only reacts to the mid signals kick.

So, what happens is that the Side channels is pumping every time the kick hits. This creates a really nice Daft Punk kind of heavy compression that still keeps the drums that are in the middle nice and tight. It's kind of a psychoacoustic effect that the side is enhancing the feeling of the pumping.

Sorry about the messy description but I don't really know how I can explain this any further. Here are some pictures of the setup.

Enjoy!
bManic

Debutante · Post by **Debutante** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:23 pm

bmanic lead the way! Where've you been

...

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:54 pm

nice trick bmanic, really!

4tune · Post by **4tune** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:14 am

Would it be possible to get the XT template for this bmanic? Think I got it right but would just like to double check..

Sounds good to my ears anyhow even if I've not got it 100% yet

cheers

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:48 am

Sure. You can download the EnergyXT template here.

You will need to have Voxengo MSED and Voxengo Crunchessor installed to get this to work.

Note: This is the initial setup that I made. To get the massive Side channel pumping that I demonstrated you need to tweak the SIDE Mixer (a Voxengo MSED plugin) so that you have only the mid signal feeding the compressor (so, turn off the side signal).

Cheers!
bManic

4tune · Post by **4tune** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:12 am

Thanks very much,

will test this out properly tomorrow.

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:11 am

bmanic wrote:Original clip, composed in 15 minutes especially for this demonstration purpose. It ended up sounding like something from the old demo scene circa 1990... sorry 'bout that.

well there's eighties porn music, and then came the nineties porn music... and then this tribute of yours to all jenna jameson/penthouse feature films of that time.

you're scaring me.

all kidding aside,

that "Mid controlling Side signal" is quite excellent.

krank · Post by **krank** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:54 am

Bmanic,

Is it just me, or is your original file compressed really hard already?

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:04 pm

Actually it isn't compressed at all. It's just limited quite heavily and the drum samples are probably quite heavily compressed.

@Kingston: lol, yeah, I was actually thinking yesterday that this might fit in a retro porn flick. Hmm.. maybe it's time to contact Henry Saari.

Cheers!
bManic

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:39 pm

bmanic wrote: Mid controlling Side signal. Now this is where it gets much more interesting and useful. I have setup the chain so that the MID signal has it's own compressor where the side-chain is fed equal amounts of Mid+Side signal, so basically the ordinary stereo signal.

Just thought I should point out that "equal amounts of Mid+Side signal" is actually the same as the left channel, so you are in fact keying the mid channel compression from the left input channel. This is how Behringer Composers link their channels for stereo operation, but that does not make it correct!

The mid channel should be keyed from the mid channel, same as the side channel: the cool effects come from the fact that the side channel can have a totally different compression transfer to the mid, not from any difference in the key signal.

Is is a cool trick though: I tend to do it inside Tracktion racks using the Mackie dynamics processors:

Archive

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:59 pm

No, you got it a bit wrong or I explained it actually a bit weird. Check out the Voxengo MSED plugin. When I talk about "equal amounts" it actually is Voxengo MSED which has an internal encode -> decode signal chain. That is, it truly works as a Mid-Side mixer. If you turn down the Side channel, it really does remove exactly the side information, and same with the mid knob. This is why the MSED plugin is so genious.

If you have an encoded signal and turn up both equally, yes, then it's basically the left signal, but this is NOT what I did. It should be fairly obvious from the final results that it's definitely not the left channel keying the compressor.

Cheers!
bManic

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:13 pm

bmanic wrote: If you have an encoded signal and turn up both equally, yes, then it's basically the left signal, but this is NOT what I did. It should be fairly obvious from the final results that it's definitely not the left channel keying the compressor.

Sorry not listened to it yet

but reading your post definitely implied to me that you were adding the mid and side channels together to key the mid...

bmanic wrote:Check out the Voxengo MSED plugin

Yeah, maybe I will. I never bothered before as its really easy to encode / decode in tracktion and I have rack presets all set up ready to go.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:22 pm

IIRs wrote:
bmanic wrote: If you have an encoded signal and turn up both equally, yes, then it's basically the left signal, but this is NOT what I did. It should be fairly obvious from the final results that it's definitely not the left channel keying the compressor.
Sorry not listened to it yet but reading your post definitely implied to me that you were adding the mid and side channels together to key the mid...

Yes. That was my bad description. I should have mentioned that I exclusively use Voxengo MSED which is basically a Mid-Side mixer. The two knobs simply work as volume controls for the mid and side signals. It's very handy.

Cheers!
bManic

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:30 pm

I have to add, that apart from this nice trick, the original file also sounds very good at all.

I love that electro bass sound in it. Makes you shake you shoulders and groove on it. hehe well done b.

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:30 am

hey bmanic, your track inspired me to do this simpletrack...

http://home.arcor.de/soundspace2/Music/ ... orever.mp3

All about compressors (links broken: sorry!)