KVR Audio

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:39 pm

layzer wrote:
electro wrote:
layzer wrote:meh... keyboard controllers only need a mod and pitch wheel, aftertouch and a program change control at most... editing VSTs with a mouse on the big LCD is still the way to go. imo
Right on. Knob boxes today are the easiest thing to supplement the lack of tactile controls on a keyboard.
Roland almost got it right.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1243

How about a semi weighted 88 waterfall keybed with aftertouch?
not being a live performer myself, i picked up a ucontrol 16 knob controller and only
used it a few times before i went back to just using the mouse again. i dunno, in studio
work, its just more of a hassle trying to remember what knob controls what parameter
for multiple vst's without getting out the paper and sicssors to make template overlays.
too much of a hassle

Absolutely. That's why I can't understand why anyone uses midi at all. Control surface mapping on the other hand (ala Kore, Maschine, Novation Automap, Nektar, Ableton control surfaces, Bitwig control surafces etc.) are great with an LCD screen since you see what you're controlling.

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:57 am

Roland System-1 is pretty generic in the layout. If the knobs were endless i think it could be close to what's been suggested. But it could be better ...

drawing contest?

2 osc and 1 sub, 2 filters?, 2 adsr, 2 lfo
osc section extra knobs for pwm, fm, pitch etc
modulation matrix for filt, amp, pitch
Pick components used from one company only. Make it as cheep as possible. LCD displays ups the price. Scribble (why is it called that?!) probably adds up a lot more.

I do this all the time in my head ^_^ Lots of fun and makes my dog walks very enjoyable and almost instant

What i've come up with is that using an (old?) 7" surfpad to show graphics and explanation of knobs along with some touch capability (presets, modulation matrix) would be the best and probably most affordable way.
You could have a frame of knobs and buttons around it like on an old akai rack sampler. Then just place the surf pad in the middle. No need for a fast one as you only use it to show simple values. There's several of those for iOS but a surf pad for android is much cheaper of course. I think i've seen 9" for as little as 50 euro but im sure there's even cheaper.

Heh.. a controller like this could even be wireless and battery powered

Otherwise a thin flat usb cable wont cause much hassle

I think Akai has come very very close with these controllers and unless something else comes at NAMM im sure ill get the 49 key.

Novalis · Post by **Novalis** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:56 am

beely wrote: a control surface optimised for general synthesis use - ie, a well designed interface with dedicated controls for various oscillator functions, filter functions, envelope functions, LFOs and so on and flexible enough to cope with a decent amount of individual plugins' implementation of these.

The Arturia controllers go in that direction.
Of course they are designed to work with the Analog Lab software, but that doesn't mean they can't be used effectively with other synths.

My 32 keys controller has dedicated, labeled controls for master volume, filter cutoff and resonance, LFO rate and amount, chorus and delay, and 4 faders for ADSR.
This parameters exist on pretty much any synth, so I assign them to the same functions on all synths, and I can control these parameters always with the same knobs/faders, no matter what synth I have in front of me.
Besides that I have 4 not labeled knobs.

I completely understand your wish for a non-generic, dedicated controller with labeled knobs and faders for the most common synth parameters.
I bought the Arturia because it was the one which came closest to that.

The Roland System-1 is really nice, but the keyboard is a joke.
They should either release a version with a proper keyboard, or one without keys, then I would consider buying one of them.

Can the Roland GAIA be used as a midi controller?
If yes, that would make for an awesome controller for synth plug-ins, since it has dedicated controls for all of the common synth parameters.

What is this ZEN you are all talking about?
If I google Akai Zen, I see mostly mobile phones...

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:33 am

Novalis wrote:What is this ZEN you are all talking about?
If I google Akai Zen, I see mostly mobile phones...

http://www.bigtickaudio.com/zen/about-zen

Novalis · Post by **Novalis** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:31 am

Ah, it's software... I thought it must be an older controller.
Thanks.

PALU · Post by **PALU** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:42 pm

I've got a question to Big Tick about the software. Can you convert your ZEN database into VIP database?

And is it at all possible (even with an additional converter, or something) to get back to using the original VSTi not VSTi via VIP software...? I guess not...
For example when you collaborate and I want to send someone the project and they don't have the Advance - what can they do to open the project? Will the software be free?

medienhexer · Post by **medienhexer** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:02 pm

szalonykp wrote:I've got a question to Big Tick about the software. Can you convert your ZEN database into VIP database?

And is it at all possible (even with an additional converter, or something) to get back to using the original VSTi not VSTi via VIP software...? I guess not...
For example when you collaborate and I want to send someone the project and they don't have the Advance - what can they do to open the project? Will the software be free?

Now THAT is a good question!

Phorous · Post by **Phorous** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:11 pm

THIS is what I wanted Komplete Kontrol to be.

Support for non NI plugins & more knobs to map and twiddle for a reasonable price. Consider me sold.

Are you listening Native Instruments? You should be.

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:55 pm

szalonykp wrote:I've got a question to Big Tick about the software. Can you convert your ZEN database into VIP database?

I think transferring the presets and tags between Zen and Vip wouldn't be too hard, and can work both ways. The main problem would be transferring the controls mapping, because VIP has a lot more features than Zen in that regard.

And is it at all possible (even with an additional converter, or something) to get back to using the original VSTi not VSTi via VIP software...? I guess not...
For example when you collaborate and I want to send someone the project and they don't have the Advance - what can they do to open the project? Will the software be free?

That's a tricky one and I don't know what Akai has planned for these kind of situation. There are features for exporting / importing your whole database, or a plugin-specific extract, or a setlist, but both parties need to have VIP installed. Also, you can use the VIP multi's feature to create a complex layer with several Vsti's, and obviously there is no easy VIP-less conversion for that.

keyman_sam · Post by **keyman_sam** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:26 pm

$600 for the 61 key version...Hmm, that's expected I guess but I will pass. The GAS is strong with this one, but I have Maschine which pretty much does this, but just for NI instruments (which are already a handful, and comprise of most of my sounds).

PALU · Post by **PALU** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:17 pm

Thanks for the answers. I'm really thinking about committing to using VIP (it's a decision with a long-term consequences) - mostly because Zen was sooooo gooood. I need to see more demos of the keyboards, but for me the software is a big selling point. I feel it's more future-proof than Automap with which I have bad experiences.

It would be great if for example the trial version of VIP software would let you use the VSTi in a project without all the added functions...

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:14 pm

szalonykp wrote:

And is it at all possible (even with an additional converter, or something) to get back to using the original VSTi not VSTi via VIP software...? I guess not...
For example when you collaborate and I want to send someone the project and they don't have the Advance - what can they do to open the project? Will the software be free?

Wich reminds me why I sweared i'll never use wrappers in host again.

I remember how I sweated to recover some projects I had made with Automap versions of instruments on my new PC where I did not want to install it. All the Kontakt 16 output instruments were impossible to open ! And I could not find out what layers I had done unless I opened the projects on an old PC with automap installed.

Wich means that when you depend on a wrapper, you're stuck with it for all projects that use it. So what if the Akai would not work in X years with this or that system/daw/os combo ?

So that, and I'm very sorry Big Tick, but even if its the most elegant wrapper, the best and only solution -for me- is found in plug ins where you can assign midi CC to each parmameter, and save that in a file. The shortest and most direct link between a daw and the instrument. I wish all synths had this possibility.

PALU · Post by **PALU** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:52 am

Lotuzia wrote: I remember how I sweated to recover some projects I had made with Automap versions of instruments on my new PC where I did not want to install it. All the Kontakt 16 output instruments were impossible to open ! And I could not find out what layers I had done unless I opened the projects on an old PC with automap installed.

That's what I'm afraid of too... With all my love for Big Tick's software I'm not using it, because of that. And I don't see a way to make it right to be honest - maybe a DAW-specific converter, but it's a really clumsy solution.

rentboyrenton · Post by **rentboyrenton** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:00 pm

unless you only send out the audio stems of your projects, wrappers are basically useless

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:23 pm

Lotuzia wrote: Wich reminds me why I sweared i'll never use wrappers in host again.

I remember how I sweated to recover some projects I had made with Automap versions of instruments on my new PC where I did not want to install it. All the Kontakt 16 output instruments were impossible to open ! And I could not find out what layers I had done unless I opened the projects on an old PC with automap installed.

Wich means that when you depend on a wrapper, you're stuck with it for all projects that use it. So what if the Akai would not work in X years with this or that system/daw/os combo ?

So that, and I'm very sorry Big Tick, but even if its the most elegant wrapper, the best and only solution -for me- is found in plug ins where you can assign midi CC to each parmameter, and save that in a file. The shortest and most direct link between a daw and the instrument. I wish all synths had this possibility.

This.

AKAI Pro launch the Advance Keyboard Series for VST, AU ...