Objective Differences: Ableton Live 9.5 vs Bitwig?

[Cyoon]

yea i know layered editing, just wasn't aware of this with audio, barely use audio and probably never in layered editing..but thx for the heads up! (maybe also post it in tips & tricks thread

[ThomasHelzle]

You're belittling someone simply because they insist on a feature that you don't agree is necessary.

You know, Theo raged against BWS in the beginning, then at one point he came crawling and was all positive, now it's another tide of raging for mostly silly reasons.
His arguments are of course totally valid in his own personal universe and he's welcome to them, but his usual way of totally overexaggerating things (in whatever direction is the current) don't do anything to keep a discussion "Objective" as the op asked for.

If all DAWs would be the same, what would be the point of having several.
Doing everything the same is the opposite of progress.
If somebody is unwilling to actually go in and find the new, brilliant stuff because some old habits aren't served - his loss.

I think ceasless did a great job in trying to show alternative solutions.
Not sure what the problem is with that?

Cheers, over and out,

Tom

[pdxindy]

nice one!

Note that both of these buttons are also available in the edit pane in your gif as well, Suloo

It's just a bit more cramped than I've gotten used to with the full Edit view. But all the functionality is available there as well.

The only real limitation/difference from the arrangement that I have noticed is that currently you can only edit multiple audio or MIDI events, but not both audio and MIDI events at the same time. That could be a deal breaker for some folks, but I haven't found it to be a problem so far. I do the arranging in the arrange view and then fine tune stuff where I want more details on the clip(s) in the 'Edit' view.

I also didn't realize for quite a while that you could open up multiple tracks of audio and resize them in the editor like that.

There is some advantage to resizing tracks right in arrange, but doing so in the editor also has advantages.

I like doing it the Bitwig way because it is easy to toggle between arrange and full size editor. I can have different snap and grid settings and different zoom in each. Arrange makes a good overview that I can get back to anytime with one key command. Live needs more zooming and scrolling around.

Working with multiple clips in the editor also allows moving of onsets and stretching audio as well as editing audio events within the clip (which Live doesn't do at all). You can also easily hide and or lock individual tracks.

It's fine if Theo wants track resizing in arrange, but I am doubtful he gave the Bitwig approach a fair test before concluding how much better Live was and that Bitwig is un-useable. I'm a long time Live user and it takes a bit of a shift in thinking, but I like the Bitwig approach better.

However, I would like to see some improvements in the multi-track editor. For example, I wish the group track had an option to show/hide all sub tracks. Right now you have to click the eye on each sub track. I'd like to be able to select a group track and have just those sub tracks show. Currently showing only what you want works much better in Arrange than in the Editor.

[inkwarp]

ahh, most excellent. that makes it so much more useful to me now.
kudos

[xbitz]

However, I would like to see some improvements in the multi-track editor. For example, I wish the group track had an option to show/hide all sub tracks. Right now you have to click the eye on each sub track. I'd like to be able to select a group track and have just those sub tracks show. Currently showing only what you want works much better in Arrange than in the Editor.

found a way to sync between the two (on clip level it's working with clicking on the (meta) clips)

view on full timeline view, is there any other mean official way for this?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[5Lives]

When do you all think BWS will announce the next big release? 1.4 or 1.5? NAMM?

[pdxindy]

Okay, if you say so... I was attempting to point out that he might have totally missed the fact that this feature already exists in Bitwig and TheoM's dismissal of Edit view seemed to me to demonstrate that he had not explored it thoroughly.

EDIT: You also seem to completely gloss over my points about new bug vectors and the fact that until recently I also had not explored the Edit view thoroughly.

EDIT 2: And yes, I do consider a workflow issue to be imaginary if that workflow is already possible, just under a different name. But maybe there is some deeply compelling aspect of the Arrange view that is not in the Edit view and I just haven't noticed it myself.

I know about the edit view, and i know the advanced stuff has to be done in there. Thats the whole point, i hate that workflow.. can you grasp that? it's BECAUSE of the mandatory edit view for any resize capabilities and advanced audio editing (if you can call it that ) that i specifically hate bitwig's workflow and would never even consider it.

It is significantly better than Live for speed, fluid workflow and capability.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[xbitz]

how do u create modulation in Cubase, like



with MidiShaper from Cableguys/Xfer LFOTool, Cubase has only a very limited MIDI LFO tool



and AFAIK there is no multi-assignable macro control handlig possibility in it (quick controls can be applied to one target, except the Steinberg instruments which have inbuilt macros or the new Spire which also has own macro system) otherwise yepp Cubase a really good DAW (as a post-production one)

[pdxindy]

Okay, if you say so... I was attempting to point out that he might have totally missed the fact that this feature already exists in Bitwig and TheoM's dismissal of Edit view seemed to me to demonstrate that he had not explored it thoroughly.

EDIT: You also seem to completely gloss over my points about new bug vectors and the fact that until recently I also had not explored the Edit view thoroughly.

EDIT 2: And yes, I do consider a workflow issue to be imaginary if that workflow is already possible, just under a different name. But maybe there is some deeply compelling aspect of the Arrange view that is not in the Edit view and I just haven't noticed it myself.

I know about the edit view, and i know the advanced stuff has to be done in there. Thats the whole point, i hate that workflow.. can you grasp that? it's BECAUSE of the mandatory edit view for any resize capabilities and advanced audio editing (if you can call it that ) that i specifically hate bitwig's workflow and would never even consider it.

It is significantly better than Live for speed, fluid workflow and capability.

not for me it's not. Not in any way shape or form. then again, i use cubase and logic (less and less) as my master daw's, and bitwig to me is a *joke* compared to those.

This thread is about Live and Bitwig. And Bitwig is significantly better than Live when it comes to editing.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[LawrenceF]

couldn't care a ... about modulating everything with everything.

Neither do I.

[pdxindy]

This thread is about Live and Bitwig. And Bitwig is significantly better than Live when it comes to editing.

No it's NOT, not for ME.

What is wrong with you people? Unable to accept that someone prefers another tool over your beloved bitwig?

Editing is better for YOU.. that's fine! Not for ME!

get it?

I get that is what you are saying... but I think you are just making shit up cause you have a big emotional charge about Bitwig, not because of any coherent assessment of the two.

Oh... and Bitwig isn't beloved to me. It happens to have note expression and can support the new controllers like Seaboard and Linnstrument. That is why I purchased Bitwig and am currently using it more than Live. I would have happily stayed with Live otherwise. I have no agenda to conclude that Bitwig is better. But when it comes to editing clips Bitwig is better. Your hate for Bitwig doesn't allow you to recognize it where it's good.