One Synth Challenge #86: Sinnah by NUSofting (Penguinfromdeep wins!)
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- KVRian
- 850 posts since 20 Oct, 2003 from Seattle
I've done quite a bit of processing and eq on my 'drum' sounds .. Nothing that remade the timbre of the sounds but lots of eq and compression and a bit of saturation.
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- KVRist
- 396 posts since 7 Dec, 2006 from Richmond, VA, USA
That would make the percussion too easy....jasinski wrote:Would be really nice if the synth has a resonant filter. Just sayin
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- KVRian
- 850 posts since 20 Oct, 2003 from Seattle
bh9090.... ah you figured me out 
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- KVRist
- 194 posts since 27 Aug, 2014
Is heavy use of EQ, Reverb, Distortion, Clipper allowed? Or is it alowed only to add some color or brightness to the sound?
The rules not really clear for me.
"Any effect that transforms the sound to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth." - EQ can change sound pretty much so it's not allowed? Can someone explain?
For example I wan't to use EQ with high cut down to 70 hz to keep it as sub bass layer. Or I want to throw lots of notes with distortion and long reverb then use track volume control to create a snare and another reverb after that probably. Or for example make a heavy distrotion and wet only long reverb then use automation to create hats.
The rules not really clear for me.
"Any effect that transforms the sound to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth." - EQ can change sound pretty much so it's not allowed? Can someone explain?
For example I wan't to use EQ with high cut down to 70 hz to keep it as sub bass layer. Or I want to throw lots of notes with distortion and long reverb then use track volume control to create a snare and another reverb after that probably. Or for example make a heavy distrotion and wet only long reverb then use automation to create hats.
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- KVRAF
- 3204 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Just listen to some older OSCs and you'll get the idea. I was super careful on my very first track, but then soon realized that it's pretty far open as to what you can do.
Most important rule is not to use pitch shifting/modulating tools such as external chorus effects or anything that would alter the very waveform of it other than cutting off frequencies or boosting others.
Distortion and saturation appears to be just fine.
I personally think that transient shapers are really questionable, because they can dramatically change the abilities or nature of a synth, allowing the introduction of envelopes that it wouldn't be capable of. The other "problem" this brings- in my eyes- is that such tools make people pull every different synth back into the artist's own "same sound" all the time, kind of defeating the purpose of exposing the qualities of each synth. But that's a HUGE question, of course... ...at the end, I think, who cares. There should be great music, coming from the offered sound source, that's all.
What I would find absolutely awesome, is if people were to always present a mini tutorial on key treatments they used to create their mix. This partially happens here and is always a fantastic boost to everyone's evolution. I've already learned so much from everyone, it's great!
Most important rule is not to use pitch shifting/modulating tools such as external chorus effects or anything that would alter the very waveform of it other than cutting off frequencies or boosting others.
Distortion and saturation appears to be just fine.
I personally think that transient shapers are really questionable, because they can dramatically change the abilities or nature of a synth, allowing the introduction of envelopes that it wouldn't be capable of. The other "problem" this brings- in my eyes- is that such tools make people pull every different synth back into the artist's own "same sound" all the time, kind of defeating the purpose of exposing the qualities of each synth. But that's a HUGE question, of course... ...at the end, I think, who cares. There should be great music, coming from the offered sound source, that's all.
What I would find absolutely awesome, is if people were to always present a mini tutorial on key treatments they used to create their mix. This partially happens here and is always a fantastic boost to everyone's evolution. I've already learned so much from everyone, it's great!
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- KVRist
- 493 posts since 17 Dec, 2013 from The Netherlands
Just take a look at bjporter's tutorial for kick or snare to see how much mangling you can do
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2725 posts since 19 Dec, 2010 from North America
A small amount of distortion is ok, but doing like full on overdrive not so much.Taron wrote: Distortion and saturation appears to be just fine.
One Synth Challenge: https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/about
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- KVRian
- 850 posts since 20 Oct, 2003 from Seattle
If distortion is making the synth unrecognizable then you've gone too far!
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- KVRAF
- 3204 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Ehehe, on this one you'd need devastating distortion to scratch its recognizability! 
But, yeah, it's best not to be too shy, though, because you'd feel confined like walking on eggshells only to be mad at yourself when you later hear just how far people were taking it.
We've had everything from bitcrushed up shimmers to damn near vocoder like sounding EQ squishes. Don't be afraid!
But, yeah, it's best not to be too shy, though, because you'd feel confined like walking on eggshells only to be mad at yourself when you later hear just how far people were taking it.
We've had everything from bitcrushed up shimmers to damn near vocoder like sounding EQ squishes. Don't be afraid!
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- DASH Guy
- 8154 posts since 20 Sep, 2001
bjporter wrote:...but its more reverb usage / eq i think
rghvdberg wrote:I'm slowly getting there.
Feel kinda cheating because I use a lot of EQ to shape the final sounds.
jasinski wrote:I've done quite a bit of processing and eq on my 'drum' sounds .. Nothing that remade the timbre of the sounds but lots of eq and compression and a bit of saturation.
jasinski wrote:Would be really nice if the synth has a resonant filter.
So it's "more powerful EQ and filters" what you're mainly missing in Sinnah?Taron wrote: Last thought:
- The EQ is the shimmer of hope to have some more control over the sound, but I think it could get one more option to help even more by allowing to zero out all and only have the band peak act...kind of like an inversion of what you have already.
E.G. Meaning Sinnah should go more on the standard VA route?
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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- KVRAF
- 3204 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
No, not really. I mean, filters would be a great addition, but not as vital as an extra ADSR and LFO with access to all sensible parameters, but also pitch (and then filter, too, if that were to show up).
The EQ only makes sense inside Sinnah, if it was per note and not as post process, because one can always hook an EQ up later. Per Note such EQ should then be able to track with the notes and then meaningfully manipulate the actual sound of the instrument. The idea of being able to additionally hook an envelope to the parameters of the bell would really make this interesting!
But, yeah, I would not waste too much effort on post effects that one would rather replace with dedicated tools.
There's always the case of "selling a cool sounding synth" by adding reverbs and delays, both of which are practically totally unnecessary, unless they're somehow brilliant.
Anyhow, the built in post EQ here and there actually threw me off during making a mix.
...weird somehow, because I didn't expect that to happen. Eventually I went in there and moderated all my Sinnah EQ settings so I could gain control back outside of it.
It's all about adding features inside the Synth that cannot be replicated outside (aka polyphonic notes receiving their frequency based adjustments!).
The EQ only makes sense inside Sinnah, if it was per note and not as post process, because one can always hook an EQ up later. Per Note such EQ should then be able to track with the notes and then meaningfully manipulate the actual sound of the instrument. The idea of being able to additionally hook an envelope to the parameters of the bell would really make this interesting!
But, yeah, I would not waste too much effort on post effects that one would rather replace with dedicated tools.
There's always the case of "selling a cool sounding synth" by adding reverbs and delays, both of which are practically totally unnecessary, unless they're somehow brilliant.
Anyhow, the built in post EQ here and there actually threw me off during making a mix.
...weird somehow, because I didn't expect that to happen. Eventually I went in there and moderated all my Sinnah EQ settings so I could gain control back outside of it.It's all about adding features inside the Synth that cannot be replicated outside (aka polyphonic notes receiving their frequency based adjustments!).
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- KVRian
- 850 posts since 20 Oct, 2003 from Seattle
I don't think it needs to go standard V/A! Keep it weird. But maybe some more modulation capabilities liqih...
For example:
You could do a lot with a couple of LFOs and a second envelop. Assignable destinations for the lags, range, speed, wave form, and harmonics (with control over the modulation amounts).
Extending the range of the eq low and high pass so that you can do some extreme eq internally. A wider range of pitch modulation and make that assignable from an evn or lfo as well...
Maybe instead of a boring old low-pass filter a comb filter? A bit-cruch filter??
Also even more extreme harmonic range for the knob. Control over the mono triggering mode.
Maybe even more weirdness like an option to route delays into the each other (forgive me if this is how it works already).
For example:
You could do a lot with a couple of LFOs and a second envelop. Assignable destinations for the lags, range, speed, wave form, and harmonics (with control over the modulation amounts).
Extending the range of the eq low and high pass so that you can do some extreme eq internally. A wider range of pitch modulation and make that assignable from an evn or lfo as well...
Maybe instead of a boring old low-pass filter a comb filter? A bit-cruch filter??
Also even more extreme harmonic range for the knob. Control over the mono triggering mode.
Maybe even more weirdness like an option to route delays into the each other (forgive me if this is how it works already).
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- KVRian
- 850 posts since 20 Oct, 2003 from Seattle
another thought--- the requirements of what we 'need' in One-Synth-Challenge is somewhat different from what I'd be using this for in my standard rig.
I wouldn't be looking at using this for creating subtractive synth style sounds- or drum and cymbal sounds... I WOULD use it for shimmery pads, strings, some brassy sounds, and weird fx.
Here our requests are a bit unusual because we're trying to make it do everything.
I wouldn't be looking at using this for creating subtractive synth style sounds- or drum and cymbal sounds... I WOULD use it for shimmery pads, strings, some brassy sounds, and weird fx.
Here our requests are a bit unusual because we're trying to make it do everything.
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- DASH Guy
- 8154 posts since 20 Sep, 2001
Thanks Taron
with a specific formants enhancement, so while it's true that you can do the same with an external EQ
having an EQ settable per preset seems useful to me
and the ability to sell it, they would be needed.
extra ADSR and LFO and pitch envelope are already planned, so no worries thereTaron wrote:No, not really. I mean, filters would be a great addition, but not as vital as an extra ADSR and LFO with access to all sensible parameters, but also pitch (and then filter, too, if that were to show up).
"because one can always hook an EQ up later" : yes and no, the EQ inside Sinnah allowed me to make presetsThe EQ only makes sense inside Sinnah, if it was per note and not as post process, because one can always hook an EQ up later. Per Note such EQ should then be able to track with the notes and then meaningfully manipulate the actual sound of the instrument. The idea of being able to additionally hook an envelope to the parameters of the bell would really make this interesting!
with a specific formants enhancement, so while it's true that you can do the same with an external EQ
having an EQ settable per preset seems useful to me
I agree that from a sound designer point of view the post effects inside the synth are unecessary, but for a possible Sinnah Pro,But, yeah, I would not waste too much effort on post effects that one would rather replace with dedicated tools.
There's always the case of "selling a cool sounding synth" by adding reverbs and delays, both of which are practically totally unnecessary, unless they're somehow brilliant.
and the ability to sell it, they would be needed.
Yes I undederstand that, can't you simply turn the EQ off,? There's a switch, <wink>Anyhow, the built in post EQ here and there actually threw me off during making a mix.
Yes that's the priorityIt's all about adding features inside the Synth that cannot be replicated outside (aka polyphonic notes receiving their frequency based adjustments!).
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- KVRAF
- 3204 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Ehehehe, true, I could turn the EQ off, but where's the fun in that!
No, really, I actually am eagerly waiting for your update and believe you'll give the EQ an even more prominent role.
...and when you do, I shall be prepared!
I should add that I'm with Jasinski on keeping the quirkiness of the synth. I even would want to stress to keep the simplicity of it or be very careful in the expansion to keep an eye on simplicity and focus around its specialty. It feels as if there could be some more powerful access to the feedback cascade that would allow more concrete sound design. Working with the first lag shows some of that promise, while 2 and 3 somehow dangle a bit uncontrollably behind the first lag, hehe. I know and can imagine this is tough, but it sure would be interesting to where you could take this.
This is also why I never asked for a filter section, but only to have EQ inside to be per voice with the possibility of tracking with the notes. It would maintain the simplicity and not stray from the DNA of Sinnah. I only would evolve the waveform section, which to me is completely opaque and I can't really feel in charge of the sound, but you know that already. I think this is begging for some evolution.
When I design a sound, I want to feel like I have control over the 3 major stages of the sound; attack, decay and release. The main characteristics of the sound should be controllable for these sections, especially attack and all that comes after it. Main characteristics include noise ratio really going from no noise to only noise. Also, I really want to know what's happening to the sound, but yeah...being consciously in control over harmonics would be a big bonus.
I think, I can see Sinnah reaching an ideal state by additing no more than 6 elements (I think) and swapping/improving 3 of the existing ones. That could do the trick.
No, really, I actually am eagerly waiting for your update and believe you'll give the EQ an even more prominent role.
...and when you do, I shall be prepared!
I should add that I'm with Jasinski on keeping the quirkiness of the synth. I even would want to stress to keep the simplicity of it or be very careful in the expansion to keep an eye on simplicity and focus around its specialty. It feels as if there could be some more powerful access to the feedback cascade that would allow more concrete sound design. Working with the first lag shows some of that promise, while 2 and 3 somehow dangle a bit uncontrollably behind the first lag, hehe. I know and can imagine this is tough, but it sure would be interesting to where you could take this.
This is also why I never asked for a filter section, but only to have EQ inside to be per voice with the possibility of tracking with the notes. It would maintain the simplicity and not stray from the DNA of Sinnah. I only would evolve the waveform section, which to me is completely opaque and I can't really feel in charge of the sound, but you know that already. I think this is begging for some evolution.
When I design a sound, I want to feel like I have control over the 3 major stages of the sound; attack, decay and release. The main characteristics of the sound should be controllable for these sections, especially attack and all that comes after it. Main characteristics include noise ratio really going from no noise to only noise. Also, I really want to know what's happening to the sound, but yeah...being consciously in control over harmonics would be a big bonus.
I think, I can see Sinnah reaching an ideal state by additing no more than 6 elements (I think) and swapping/improving 3 of the existing ones. That could do the trick.
Last edited by Taron on Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.