UAD still worth it?

[dionenoid]

Maybe someone knows if native UAD oversample?
And if I’m running a higher rate, will they oversample or locked on a specific rate?

Depends on the plugin. There's an Appendix in the UAD user manual with a list of which UAD plugins oversample or not.

Native versions use the same oversampling according to UAD reps.

From page 704 and onwards : http://media.uaudio.com/support/liverac ... 171110.pdf

[zvenx]

Thank you.. I always wondered where this oversampling info came from? UAD employees on their forums on gearspace? etc.

rsp

[jens]

The IK Tape Machines run at a fixed 384kHz internally, and I’d gladly trade that for 192 and half the CPU usage.

I certainly don't!

They claim that there is a mathematical reason why they have to run their model at that sample-rate in order for their emulation(s) - which they claim is and is indeed said to be (i.e. general consenus) more accurate/authentic than all the other tape-emulations - to properly function i.e. the algorithm just wouldn't run as it should at 192... made sense to me when they said it and these plugins certainly do something the others don't. So I'm glad they just ignore folks like you and keep doing what they do.


Edit:

I found the explanation - seems legit:

This explains why these emulations sound so accurate. As many here know, analog tape recorders work with a signal that linearises the tape medium (this is simplifying, I know), and the frequency of this signal is always well outside the audio band (for example on the Studer it is 150 kHz). To allow the physical model to run the internal sampling rate can’t be lower than the double of that or this and the true characteristics of the tape machine could not be replicated with authenticity.

This increases CPU load, of course, but as stated above it is the only way to faithfully reproduce what the tape machine/recorder does. Yes, there are already tons of “tape saturators”, but we didn’t wanted to make another one of those. The T-RackS Tape Machine Collection plug-ins are a true digital replica of what happens on the real system as a whole.

viewtopic.php?t=526709&start=60

[jamcat]

And yet the UAD Studer A800 runs at 192 kHz internally, uses ⅓ the CPU, and sounds virtually indistinguishable from IK’s Tape Machine 80.

IK could at the very least give users an eco mode for real-time mixing.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

And yet the UAD Studer A800 runs at 192 kHz internally, uses ⅓ the CPU, and sounds virtually indistinguishable from IK’s Tape Machine 80.

IK could at the very least give users an eco mode for real-time mixing.

The UAD Studer uses what looks like waveshaping for the saturation and gets very crunchy very fast.

Here's a quick comparison showing the differences in the harmonic series between the two:




...I'd rather use the IK version.

[jens]

"sounds virtually indistinguishable"... depends on who's listening, I guess.


By the way:

IK could at the very least give users an eco mode for real-time mixing.

I religiously use the 24 on (almost) every track - also while tracking. No problem here at all...

[jamcat]

I religiously use the 24 on (almost) every track - also while tracking. No problem here at all...

So that’s really going to depend on what else is going on in your mix. How many tracks do you have Tape Machine 24 on? And how many ampsims? How many VST instruments?

I use Tape Machine 24 on almost every track too, plus Tape Machine 440 on my 2-buss. I have to start disabling plugins if I have a full arrangement that includes a SWAM string section, or pulls out all the stops in Organteq.

I’d almost certainly still have plenty of CPU to spare if I was using UAD Studer A800 instead.

[jens]

I don't need a hundred tracks and a messy and convoluted sub-group setup and what not to make good-sounding music - simple as that really.

How many VST instruments?

One typically: Superior Drummer

[jamcat]

One typically: Superior Drummer

But how many tracks?
Are you putting one Tape Machine 24 on your drums, or 10?

[jens]

Yes, on the drums as on (almost) every other track.

How many tracks? That depends on the song, but certainly not many...

contrary to both better knowledge and common sense the notion is quite widespread that more is more. But of course it usually really isn't - if your mix sucks, adding more tracks won't fix that - likewise, if your tracks sucks, adding more plugins most probably won't help either - and if your line sucks, adding more notes neither will fix that - so really not many tracks...

so to summarize: I really don't think it's fair to blame IKMM for your mixing sins.

[vurt]

who records string sections, as individual channels?
stereo mic set up for that.

[jens]

Yes, indeed

[El°HYM]

And yet the UAD Studer A800 runs at 192 kHz internally, uses ⅓ the CPU, and sounds virtually indistinguishable from IK’s Tape Machine 80.

IK could at the very least give users an eco mode for real-time mixing.

The UAD Studer uses what looks like waveshaping for the saturation and gets very crunchy very fast.

Here's a quick comparison showing the differences in the harmonic series between the two:




...I'd rather use the IK version.

Funny thing is that the 80 always sounded the most 'harsh' from the IK - Tape bundle to me. Might be the Pre - ringing which was often mentioned, yet lets not forget that real Tape can still sound harsh at some time.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I remember doing a mix with the UAD when it first came out, I bought it, bought into the hype, put it across about as many channels as I could on the rock band I was working for at the time, and the mix was just harsh. Right up until I turned it off the Studer instances. I never really used it much again and considered that a lesson learned.

You can even kind of see in that PD graph that about a 1k sine signal at -16dbfs or whatever, is generating odd harmonics all the way up to nyquist at a pretty decent level. Now strap that across 8-10 instances in critical spots in your mix. Wouldn't be so bad if it didn't sound the way it looks.

I don't have the same, 'this sounds harsh', reaction to the IK Tapes. They're crazy CPU intensive and I actually seldom use them, usually preferring these days not to use tape plugins or saturators everywhere, but when I do, I dig them and think they're worth the CPU.

So that's my take: while UA makes generally great plugins, and I really love their compressors and EQs, I don't think their Studer is good.

[El°HYM]

I dont have the UAD - Studer, so cant say much except from looking at the PD Graph. The IK - Tapes are excellent and what I described as 'harsh" is a very subtle thing, maybe more like a bit 'sterile' but like I said real Tape can also sound like this.