Where is Reason 13?

[koalaboy]

Blocks built from groups of tracks, and not just all of them (which is stuck with the same problem FLStudio has).

Just to make sure:

While you can mute any clip within a Block (and arbitrarily split Blocks to create smaller sections for this) Blocks are part of a two-layer system, where the Block is the lower layer and the Song-timeline is the upper layer - and the upper layer is always prioritized. That makes Blocks a lot more powerful than seemingly similar arrangement tools of most any DAW (DP's Chunks aside).

Yes - what I'd like to do is be able to have blocks that are smaller 'vertically' and overlay them over another (and then the timeline above that if wanted). Being able to duplicate blocks would also be nice.

Imagine that I have 3 blocks, and the main sequence is 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2. I'd like to be able to have block 3 be just 2 of the tracks, and then have that overlay the middle 1,2,1. I know it can be done with the current system, but it means having to duplicate some clips, and that's annoying as we don't have ghost clips, so then if you change 1 you need to re-duplicate, etc... which is what blocks solve.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[jens]

For some of us, it's about looking to settle in one DAW that has the most beneficial aspects for our workflow/brain. I often switch to different DAWs for different approaches, but would love to be able to spend most of my time in one.

Yeah - I have any number of DAWs installed but overall enjoy working in Reason the most
- but then again it has some shortcomings that really started getting in my way too much, so I use something else ATM - I have absolutely zero use for the Rack though. I have more than enough plugins already and if I ever have use for a rack-plugin of sorts (it happens) I use something that's FAR better at this than Reason, such as Waves' absolutely brilliant StudioRack, which runs circles around the poor little RRP.

[Jac459]

For some of us, it's about looking to settle in one DAW that has the most beneficial aspects for our workflow/brain. I often switch to different DAWs for different approaches, but would love to be able to spend most of my time in one.

Yeah - I have any number of DAWs installed but overall enjoy working in Reason the most
- but then again it has some shortcomings that really started getting in my way too much, so I use something else ATM - I have absolutely zero use for the Rack though. I have more than enough plugins already and if I ever have use for a rack-plugin of sorts (it happens) I use something that's FAR better at this than Reason, such as Waves' absolutely brilliant StudioRack, which runs circles around the poor little RRP.

What is the link between both products a part from having rack in their names?
Strange comparison...

[jjpscott01]

I'm one of those who's switched to other DAW's about 10 times (Cubase, Studio One, Reaper, Samplitude ProX, Etc) but I always come back to Reason as a DAW. Years ago when I was a Protools user I got familiar with Reason and remember wishing (Propellerhead at the time) would add audio recording because Reason as a software it just made sense and ran smooth as butter. When they turned into a full fledged DAW it was a no brainer and I've loved it ever since.

If the Devs give the DAW part of the software some attention for version 13 I'll probably never look elsewhere again. I can already do everything I need in the DAW itself, but I'd just like some assurance that Reason Studios is still focused on developing the stand alone software as much as the RRP.

[jens]

What is the link between both products a part from having rack in their names?
Strange comparison...

Exactly my point!

[jens]

Hopefully that makes sense.

Yes, makes perfect sense - not being able to automatically copy Blocks to another slot is a strange omission indeed and so is the lack of ghost-clips.

[jens]

For me the three biggest deficits are however:

- ARA support
- slip-editing
- MIDI loop-recording

[jlgrimes11]

What the pro RRP fraction uses to overlook is that they are missing out on basically everything that's great (&unique) about Reason - Reason as a plugin isn't much more than a semi-random collection of plugins...

I somewhat agree with this. Reason IMO is less about its plugins but the integration of its whole self contained system.

To me I never considered Reason's synth, samplers that spectacular only integrated nicely with the program which historically was very stable (still is) and very CPU efficient (this has gotten much worse).


I never considered the sequencer top notch but at the same time, it was great for a sketchpad sequencer combined with its low learning curve and stable CPU efficient environment.

The effects and Rack wiring was always the eye candy. That said modular users would gravitate to it. Also the Rack for former hardware users were highly intuitive for a hardware preproduction studio (which was very common in the late 90s with the small Mackie Boards). Imo this was the height of Reason as you could focus on instrumentals or Sample based productions and having basically infinite hardware Rack gear to get some amazing two track mixes with not too much effort.

Back then they didn't need to grow too fast (and alot of their updates back then seemed to be more well liked). But alot of the growth options turned them into a DAW which is probably the wrong direction. In the 2010s they more or less embraced the whole DAW concept by the end of the decade was a full fledged DAW but with some unique shortcomings compared to other DAWS.

It seems like going Rack Plugin is sort of punting the DAW concept instead of trying to improve the DAW experience.

The Rack plugin makes some of their devices less usable as well as these don't have the same level of integration in other DAWS.

And the synth market is also a competitive market (probably even more so than DAWS as you have all of the good freeware programmers and/or low cost developers). So now people expect alot for an expensive VST.

[Jac459]

...

I don't agree with 100% of what you said (but who cares? ), but you put the context of the R13 discussion.
They need to reinvent themself or take a clear (new?) direction of strategy.

They have assets. An eco-system of synths not available to others (but dying if no actions are taken), a concept of copying physical world which is not present in any other audio product (to this extent) and certainly a bunch of excellent developers and designers (I have not found anyone not praising their latest synth Objekt).

So should they roll and die ? That would be really a shame and a waste...

So what should (realistically) by R13 to get them back to the forefront of the scene ?

[jens]

I think all they need to do is finally improve the DAW for R13.

Add ARA, folder-tracks, MIDI loop-recording, slip-editing, freeze, some sort of file-management (something I forgot to mention earlier: it is beyond absurd that there is no way to save even just a different mix of a song without having all audio-files copied too (as they are unavoidably contained within the project-file) and a few other bits. That would make it a lot more enticing for some RRP-users to switch over to Reason as their main DAW - which again would make it more likely that they're willing to invest in RE.

The idea to prioritize the rack-users over the DAW users certainly was a huge fuckup - you really don't need to be a genius to see that it was an entirely daft idea.

[Jac459]

I think all they need to do is finally improve the DAW for R13.

Add ARA, folder-tracks, MIDI loop-recording, slip-editing, freeze, some sort of file-management (something I forgot to mention earlier: it is beyond absurd that there is no way to save even just a different mix of a song without having all audio-files copied too (as they are unavoidably contained within the project-file) and a few other bits. That would make it a lot more enticing for some RRP-users to switch over to Reason as their main DAW - which again would make it more likely that they're willing to invest in RE.

The idea to prioritize the rack-users over the DAW users certainly was a huge fuckup - you really don't need to be a genius to see that it was an entirely daft idea.

That's your point of view and you are sure you are smart to have it . Good for you my friend.

[electro]

No offline option means we're not touching Reason with a 10 foot pole

[mholloway]

The idea to prioritize the rack-users over the DAW users certainly was a huge fuckup - you really don't need to be a genius to see that it was an entirely daft idea.

They're a for profit company, you genius.

[Jac459]

No offline option means we're not touching Reason with a 10 foot pole

Maybe you have been too much offline .
There is a one year offline option.

[jens]

The idea to prioritize the rack-users over the DAW users certainly was a huge fuckup - you really don't need to be a genius to see that it was an entirely daft idea.

They're a for profit company, you genius.

*lol* the irony... out of the two of us the one with the cognitive deficit certainly isn't me...