Reason 3.0 announced

[drez]

for the most part stuff that the guys who really know Reason

Oh you mean like me?


The weird thing is my attitude was just like yours at one point . I used to defend Reason and say "I would never switch". How things have changed since 2001.

Pardon me interjecting, but just a question...

What are you "switching" too? I think that most of the people on here that use reason use it in "conjuntion" with another host. I believe Meffy does too.

I treat it as a "bolt on" enhancement to Live4, not as a standalone app. I used to, and I still do occasionally, but its a great addition to other sequencers that support rewire...which is almost all of them. I can sequence solely in reason, but I love to use it "along side" my VST host and it works well.

What could you "switch" to that you wouldn't be able to also use Reason's unique paradigm with it? I have seen you post about EnergyXT (which I think is great as well), but it doesn't have modules at all (except for a scaled down sampler) and is only as CPU friendly as the VST's you put in it.

I guess I just don't understand why you wouldn't use reason as a resource if you already have it.

[zircon]

What are you "switching" too? I think that most of the people on here that use reason use it in "conjuntion" with another host. I believe Meffy does too.

Therein lies the problem I mentioned earlier. Why is Propellerhead developing mastering tools, when most people will be doing their mastering in other programs, those other programs being what the master mix is probably going to be in (considering Reason does not support MIDI out/Audio in)? It just doesn't make sense to me. Now, I'm not saying Propellerhead should have added audio in or MIDI out. I'm perfectly content with their decision not to. But why spend your time developing tools to make it more standalone, when it's clearly NEVER going to be a standalone application?

[drez]

What are you "switching" too? I think that most of the people on here that use reason use it in "conjuntion" with another host. I believe Meffy does too.

Therein lies the problem I mentioned earlier. Why is Propellerhead developing mastering tools, when most people will be doing their mastering in other programs, those other programs being what the master mix is probably going to be in (considering Reason does not support MIDI out/Audio in)? It just doesn't make sense to me. Now, I'm not saying Propellerhead should have added audio in or MIDI out. I'm perfectly content with their decision not to. But why spend your time developing tools to make it more standalone, when it's clearly NEVER going to be a standalone application?

I won't be using them as mastering tools. I will be using them as inserts all over the place. I think for the beginner and intermediate Reasoner, they will probably use them that way, but I don't always want to throw a stereo spreader on every single track. Also, I want to have a better compressor on complex sounds (pads that cover a wide dynamic range) and also a maximizer and choice tracks will be wonderful.

Could I use other ones in my Rewire Host Live4? Certainly. But the ones in R3 sound really freakin good! Just like the RV7000 is a phenom reverb and the Scream4 is a monster distortion unit...plus they are move CPU friendly than comparable VST's.

[Warmonger]

Some people use it standalone, some don't. Besides, 3 of the 4 MClass devices can easily be used as track inserts (EQ, Comp, Stereo Imager), so don't let the name fool you. The EQ and comp were requested extremely often, so it's not like nobody wants them.

[Meffy]

Zircon, the mastering stuff appears to be for the experts who can and do produce whole songs in Reason. :-) [edit] (And those who'd like to become more expert, too.) Some of those guys impress the heck out of me, using far less "stuff" than I would guess possible for the results they get.

Maybe they could do even more impressive songs if they bought more software. And maybe an experienced blues guitarist could make more impressive music if he bought footlockers of effects units and amp sims. ;->

Different strokes for different courses, or something like that.

Meffy

[edit] Schnapp!

[Warmonger]

Just posted on the Props Feature Suggestions forum:

Master EQ - rickiedee 2004-11-30 03:39

Obviously, there's a demand for it.

[drez]

Although I'd guess that advanced users aren't the new target markets they're after.

Well, I consider myself a pretty advanced Reason user and I think that they are DEFINITELY targeting the advanced user. I don't think that beginner and intermediate Reasoners are going to come close to tapping the potential of the Combinator. They will pull up some Combi's like Presets on a Yamaha or Korg synth. The Advanced users are going to use it as a modular synth environment to kick their sound up to the next level.

The new processing modules are also a big step up from the simpler modules of Reason 1 and 2. They are sorely welcome, and more complicated than their older cousins. I mean, can you really compare the COMP01 to the new compressor?

Its going to make advanced users able to do things that were undoable in 2.5...even with the same synth modules as before.

[shamann]

Well, I consider myself a pretty advanced Reason user and I think that they are DEFINITELY targeting the advanced user. I don't think that beginner and intermediate Reasoners are going to come close to tapping the potential of the Combinator.

I think you missed my point. I'm not saying that Reason doesn't have advanced users, but that they aren't going after them.

How long have you used Reason? Would you have classified yourself as an advanced computer music software user when you got it? If so, what version number did you start on? I'll be surprised if you were to say v2.5, because their market focus seems to have narrowed over the years to target those who aren't necessarily people one might consider power users.

[omicrom]

Just think about it. Those wonderfull combi's with oodles of DR:Rex's and Malstrom's. Sounds like the Prop boys got a good look at Xphraze and said " Hey, we can Do better than That!!" I also use Reason with Tracktion's Final Mix for mastering, but getting most of the work done in Reason is going to cut down my mixing and mastering time. And you still need to burn to cd via a dither and a red book quality software e.g. CD Arch., WaveLab etc.

[Meffy]

Warmonger, drez, we do seem to be thinking in parallel tonight. :-D

Meffy

[Warmonger]

Indeed. And not just on the topic of Reason, apparently.

There is one question I have about the Combinator. Why only 4 knobs and 4 buttons? There's a lot of seemingly wasted space on the panel. Surely they could have gone for 6 knobs and buttons instead.

[drez]

I think you missed my point. I'm not saying that Reason doesn't have advanced users, but that they aren't going after them.

How long have you used Reason? Would you have classified yourself as an advanced computer music software user when you got it? If so, what version number did you start on? I'll be surprised if you were to say v2.5, because their market focus seems to have narrowed over the years to target those who aren't necessarily people one might consider power users.

Well, I think it HAS attracted power users since 2.0 as I don't recall these guys using it at version 1:

The Crystal Method
The Prodigy
Beastie Boys

But on the flip side of the argument...there are far more "powerless" users out there that need something to get them rolling. The props can make a bunch more money off of THEM then just the power users. At the same time, they keep the application simple for the starters, they are adding great tools for the advanced people as well. I don't think this is selling out at all. I think its good business!

Now, more to your point...Would it be hard to get a more advanced non-reason user to start using it? I think the answer is yes. There are tons of other sequencers that seem to do more and there are tons of VST's to choose from.

But I don't see alot of people that are playing live onstage rolling the dice with VST's. Some are, but lots of people won't risk it. Reason, however, is the most solid Audio ever built. That is why they use it onstage. Live and Reason are becoming a formidable pair onstage. I think the Props have seen this and that is why they are developing the Combinator (zones, splits, layers) and new Remote capabilities. Advanced users are playing live and they are giving Reason the tools to do this.

[drez]

Indeed. And not just on the topic of Reason, apparently.

There is one question I have about the Combinator. Why only 4 knobs and 4 buttons? There's a lot of seemingly wasted space on the panel. Surely they could have gone for 6 knobs and buttons instead.

I thought of that too. I think because alot of the controllers are based on 4 or 8 knobs and buttons. With 8 knobs and 8 buttons, you can control 2 massive Combinators pretty well.

Sooooo, basically I think its because that's what the controller manufacturers are creating, so they are fitting the Combinator to that design.

...or they just made it that way 'cuz

[drez]

Warmonger, drez, we do seem to be thinking in parallel tonight.

Meffy

Heh, this thread has alot of people that are discussing things intelligently. The other couple of threads going on are out of control .

It makes it so much easier to have good conversation when everyone is being civil...myself included I think when people realize that they don't have to change the other guys mind, but just convey the points that they feel strongly about and not get all puffed up when someone calls their baby ugly, then things are more constructive and good information can be taken away for digestion.

That said, thank you all for being cool in this thread

Now go switch to Reason ya fools!

[Meffy]

Agreed. A reasoned -- er, sensible -- discussion sure beats silly thrashing. I have no trouble acknowledging that Reason isn't for everyone. It's definitely for me, even more so now than when 2.0 was the first decent soft synth I tried. I suspect it'd suit a lot more people than are using it now. We'll see.

Meffy