Adobe to buy Macromedia for $3.4 billion
-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
OK, but I hear terms like "wimp", "commie", "hippie" and "traitor" being used just as frequently by the Right to describe the Left. I think personal attacks - on either side - are just by-products of frustration that quash debate and get us nowhere, personally.
-
- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
in a sense it all goes back to the corporations etc. If one examines the history of the labour party it can be (& often is) theorised that they only achieved success after dropping their more 'socialist' policies & embracing an ideology mor acceptable to big business, after which they gained the backing of sectors of 'big' business & 'big' media (the terms are virtually interchangeable - as they are very much part of the same system).
Whomever one votes for the policies will in many respects be almost identical, the 'hegemony' theorist such as Robert Cox write about.
In my opinionthe future of popular participation in politics needs to be in grassroots movements & single issue movements both individually & in cooperation with each other lobbying government in the same way that the corporations themselves do. A good example of this was the stop the war coalition, which embraced people with a multitude of different outlooks & focused on one particular issue. It failed, but it was a step in the right direction. alternative news media is important also, blogs & news gathered on the net is already going in this direction.
Whomever one votes for the policies will in many respects be almost identical, the 'hegemony' theorist such as Robert Cox write about.
In my opinionthe future of popular participation in politics needs to be in grassroots movements & single issue movements both individually & in cooperation with each other lobbying government in the same way that the corporations themselves do. A good example of this was the stop the war coalition, which embraced people with a multitude of different outlooks & focused on one particular issue. It failed, but it was a step in the right direction. alternative news media is important also, blogs & news gathered on the net is already going in this direction.
-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Well said, Diverdee. Alternative news is definitely gaining momentum.
It's funny; cheap DVD production and the internet could undermine the big media message! the Free Market provided the tools for its own undoing...ironic...
It's funny; cheap DVD production and the internet could undermine the big media message! the Free Market provided the tools for its own undoing...ironic...
-
- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
The free market is being undone???bduffy wrote:Well said, Diverdee. Alternative news is definitely gaining momentum.
It's funny; cheap DVD production and the internet could undermine the big media message! the Free Market provided the tools for its own undoing...ironic...
How????
-
- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
With all the kickbacks, tax breaks & various well documented breaks, scandals & plain old scams the term 'free' market, or 'free' market capitalism is a bit of a contradiction in terms really. A nice piece of propaganda (in the original meaning of the term, as 'back in the day' the word propaganda was used by corporations, to be replaced by the warmer, cuddlier 'advertising' - negative connotations of nazi propaganda in the 2nd world war etc.) by govts, big business etc.
A critical examination of the current system exposes the inherently 'un-free' nature of it.
It is instructional to go back to the source & actually read what Adam Smith had to say about the concept of the free market, & what could happen if that concept was 'waylaid' by big business & government etc.
checks & balances & the abscence thereof are vutally important.
A critical examination of the current system exposes the inherently 'un-free' nature of it.
It is instructional to go back to the source & actually read what Adam Smith had to say about the concept of the free market, & what could happen if that concept was 'waylaid' by big business & government etc.
checks & balances & the abscence thereof are vutally important.
-
- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
-
- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
But I was asking about how the free market was providing the tools for its own undoing.diverdee wrote:With all the kickbacks, tax breaks & various well documented breaks, scandals & plain old scams the term 'free' market, or 'free' market capitalism is a bit of a contradiction in terms really. A nice piece of propaganda (in the original meaning of the term, as 'back in the day' the word propaganda was used by corporations, to be replaced by the warmer, cuddlier 'advertising' - negative connotations of nazi propaganda in the 2nd world war etc.) by govts, big business etc.
A critical examination of the current system exposes the inherently 'un-free' nature of it.
It is instructional to go back to the source & actually read what Adam Smith had to say about the concept of the free market, & what could happen if that concept was 'waylaid' by big business & government etc.
checks & balances & the abscence thereof are vutally important.
What has that to do with propaganda?
-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
What I meant was, for instance:
The internet was created by the US Military as a communication tool. It was then used by scholastic institutions and eventually made public, as we will all recall, during Clinton's admin. Now with so many unsupervised citizens freely exchanging information anywhere in the world, the idea that corporations (and governments) might not have our best interests in mind can spread quickly, and circumvent traditional information tools like TV and radio - the "propganda" tools.
I agree that these are indeed propoganda tools, as media consolidations into large corporations virtually guarantee that pro-corpoate viewpoints are pushed in the news and even entertainment. This has been the case for decades, and it only gets worse the larger the corporations get.
The internet was created by the US Military as a communication tool. It was then used by scholastic institutions and eventually made public, as we will all recall, during Clinton's admin. Now with so many unsupervised citizens freely exchanging information anywhere in the world, the idea that corporations (and governments) might not have our best interests in mind can spread quickly, and circumvent traditional information tools like TV and radio - the "propganda" tools.
I agree that these are indeed propoganda tools, as media consolidations into large corporations virtually guarantee that pro-corpoate viewpoints are pushed in the news and even entertainment. This has been the case for decades, and it only gets worse the larger the corporations get.
-
- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
Sorry mate I was just having a go at the term 'free market', it's a relic from my uni studies - before I discuss or argue a point I like to set forth what my interpretation of the various terms are.
Can't really do it justice on a board, but what it's supposed to do is minimise the risk of others not understanding where you are coming from.
E.g. 2 people are arguing about concept 'a', yet person 1 understands concept 'a' to mean something slightly different from person 2, so in essence they're not even arguing about the same thing - leading to frustration as they are arguing across each other rather than arguing about a more clearly defined concept.
It wasn't me who mentioned 'tools for undoing', but I guess what that dude was referring to is that in a system where cetain priveleged sectors of society (re: big media/business/government, all interlinked in various ways, vested interests etc.) own & control the media channels which many people use as their primary sources of information & interpretation (guess this is the 'free media' component of the 'free market' - y'know 'free' competition allowing a very limited number of media barons who have very vested interests & strong political agendas (overwhelmingly right wing 'capitalist') to own & control the major media outlets).
anyway, i'm rambling - along comes the net & now all of a sudden a lot of people are realising that they can gain information & news from independent sources again - which can lead to a sense of dissatisfaction & even anger at the way the 'majors' report what they consider news, anger at institutional bias etc.
An example of this would be the 'cleansing' of falluja in iraq - an act that meets the definition of war crime in a huge number of ways - virtually unreported by main stream news, yet the truth of what happened is getting out via the net.
Other examples are various corporate crimes - again virtually unreported in the papers that the aforementioned (or should I say unmentioned) companies advertise in.
Ans so we come vack to profit - newspapers need to maximise profit as well, especially the way they are run now - & certain stories do not make the shareholders happy, as they don't make the product advertisers (remember the word that replaces the now untrendy & unfriendly propaganda) happy - & that is where the largest percentage of newpaper profits come from.
Freedom - they fuckin hate us having it, freedom of information, belief, even a truly 'free' market, damn just do some real research on the W.T.O. etc., why do you think venezuela is starting to become such a perceived threat? Reminds me of Allendes chili - & it's now part of the (mostly undiscussed) record that AT&T (very large corporation) pressured the C.I.A. into destabilising chili in order to protect it's investments there. Sandinista era nicaragua, indonesia - goes on & on really doesn't it.
anyway rant mode off - time for tea.
Can't really do it justice on a board, but what it's supposed to do is minimise the risk of others not understanding where you are coming from.
E.g. 2 people are arguing about concept 'a', yet person 1 understands concept 'a' to mean something slightly different from person 2, so in essence they're not even arguing about the same thing - leading to frustration as they are arguing across each other rather than arguing about a more clearly defined concept.
It wasn't me who mentioned 'tools for undoing', but I guess what that dude was referring to is that in a system where cetain priveleged sectors of society (re: big media/business/government, all interlinked in various ways, vested interests etc.) own & control the media channels which many people use as their primary sources of information & interpretation (guess this is the 'free media' component of the 'free market' - y'know 'free' competition allowing a very limited number of media barons who have very vested interests & strong political agendas (overwhelmingly right wing 'capitalist') to own & control the major media outlets).
anyway, i'm rambling - along comes the net & now all of a sudden a lot of people are realising that they can gain information & news from independent sources again - which can lead to a sense of dissatisfaction & even anger at the way the 'majors' report what they consider news, anger at institutional bias etc.
An example of this would be the 'cleansing' of falluja in iraq - an act that meets the definition of war crime in a huge number of ways - virtually unreported by main stream news, yet the truth of what happened is getting out via the net.
Other examples are various corporate crimes - again virtually unreported in the papers that the aforementioned (or should I say unmentioned) companies advertise in.
Ans so we come vack to profit - newspapers need to maximise profit as well, especially the way they are run now - & certain stories do not make the shareholders happy, as they don't make the product advertisers (remember the word that replaces the now untrendy & unfriendly propaganda) happy - & that is where the largest percentage of newpaper profits come from.
Freedom - they fuckin hate us having it, freedom of information, belief, even a truly 'free' market, damn just do some real research on the W.T.O. etc., why do you think venezuela is starting to become such a perceived threat? Reminds me of Allendes chili - & it's now part of the (mostly undiscussed) record that AT&T (very large corporation) pressured the C.I.A. into destabilising chili in order to protect it's investments there. Sandinista era nicaragua, indonesia - goes on & on really doesn't it.
anyway rant mode off - time for tea.
-
- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
check out what the U.S. government is trying to do to 'sensitive' uni subjects like 'area' studies (particularly areas like the middle & near east). University students can become a threat if they have access to too much 'uncontrolled' information, hence the boycotting of military recruiters recently as students wake up to the reality of the war (& the possibility, however distant, of a draft).
again I can't find all the links, but there are some serious attempts being made to limit what students will be able to read, what tutors will be able to teach etc.
It's all about control.
again I can't find all the links, but there are some serious attempts being made to limit what students will be able to read, what tutors will be able to teach etc.
It's all about control.
-
- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
Wow does my point of view differ from yours!!
But hey, thats cool. The important thing is that we are all musicians here, and so in the interest of peace I will keep my views to myself.
And I am all for the habit of 'defining terms' Avoids needless confusion.
But hey, thats cool. The important thing is that we are all musicians here, and so in the interest of peace I will keep my views to myself.
And I am all for the habit of 'defining terms' Avoids needless confusion.
-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
I, for one, would love to hear your views on this. We have been discussing all this (rather controversial) stuff without name-calling and arguments, so I think I (we) can handle it; I promise I won't lose my temper, it's just talk.
It is totally off-topic of being a musician, but this is the "Everything Else" forum (otherwise I would've dropped it a long time ago)!
It is totally off-topic of being a musician, but this is the "Everything Else" forum (otherwise I would've dropped it a long time ago)!
-
- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
Yeah aren't differing viewpoints brilliant 
. I'm cool with peeps having differnet viewpoints, what I like is to actually discuss/debate them in a prepared sense, with evidence etc. to back it up 
. and definition of terms is crucial, one see's it all the time on boards where a discussion turns into a flamefest & degenerates/loses focus (probably at least half the fun sometimes - at least for many people).
Anyway i'm off my hobby horse now (seriously) & back to the music, like tou say we're all musicians here (in theory anyway) so let's have a good old argument about crunk, tarnce, why hip hop is pants & why ambient is the new ambient & isn't really music instead ... yada... yada...yada.
. I'm cool with peeps having differnet viewpoints, what I like is to actually discuss/debate them in a prepared sense, with evidence etc. to back it up . and definition of terms is crucial, one see's it all the time on boards where a discussion turns into a flamefest & degenerates/loses focus (probably at least half the fun sometimes - at least for many people).Anyway i'm off my hobby horse now (seriously) & back to the music, like tou say we're all musicians here (in theory anyway) so let's have a good old argument about crunk, tarnce, why hip hop is pants & why ambient is the new ambient & isn't really music instead ... yada... yada...yada.
-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
TARNCE!! Love tarnce.
Yep, I'm going into a Voice Over for a couple hours, so if you don't hear from me, you all know why. I'll chack the thread after.
It's been fun + educational!
Yep, I'm going into a Voice Over for a couple hours, so if you don't hear from me, you all know why. I'll chack the thread after.
It's been fun + educational!
-
- KVRAF
- 2336 posts since 13 Oct, 2002 from Terra Firma
The interesting thing in Adobe's takeover is how this will effect the competition. As capitalism moves towards huge monopolies the pressure to compete becomes ever greater. More and more companies go to the wall while the profit margin of the huge corporations shrinks in the face of competition from other huge corporations.
This is a dangerous situation for capitalist because monopolies mean less competition and less competition leads to stagnation. Stagnation leads to a crash and this may throw millions of workers into unemployment as the monopolies shed plant and labour in order to remain competitive.
A monopoly in freefall finds it virtually impossible to recover without regeneration of the capitalist market. During the crash millions suffer and bankruptcy is endemic as companies reliant on servicing the monopolies are without orders.
It's a frightening scenario that is not made any better by the fact that state intervention to bail out the crash will be very difficult because the US economy and the economies of Japan and Germany are the worlds biggest debtors.
The growth of monopolies has never been a good thing for capitalism and the effects of monopoly capitalism may impact very badly on all of us.
This is a dangerous situation for capitalist because monopolies mean less competition and less competition leads to stagnation. Stagnation leads to a crash and this may throw millions of workers into unemployment as the monopolies shed plant and labour in order to remain competitive.
A monopoly in freefall finds it virtually impossible to recover without regeneration of the capitalist market. During the crash millions suffer and bankruptcy is endemic as companies reliant on servicing the monopolies are without orders.
It's a frightening scenario that is not made any better by the fact that state intervention to bail out the crash will be very difficult because the US economy and the economies of Japan and Germany are the worlds biggest debtors.
The growth of monopolies has never been a good thing for capitalism and the effects of monopoly capitalism may impact very badly on all of us.