KVR Audio

blackcom · Post by **blackcom** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:59 pm

When using L3 Ultra on my 2-bus it ads treble to my mix, why? Is it a marketing trick? What makes the L3 Ultra so much "better" then the L2?

;-) · Post by **;-)** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:16 pm

Maybe it is because the bands are limited independant, thus giving the trebble more presence (amplification)?
But then it may be generally dependant from the audio source too.

.

blackcom · Post by **blackcom** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:28 pm

Dude, I wrote, the Ultra version , not the Multiversion...

The Ultramaximizer is the multiband version, the Ultramaximizer is the wide-band version....

the dj · Post by **the dj** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:40 pm

blackcom wrote:Dude, I wrote, the Ultra version , not the Multiversion...

The Ultramaximizer is the multiband version, the Ultramaximizer is the wide-band version....

see what you did there?

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:06 pm

blackcom wrote:When using L3 Ultra on my 2-bus it ads treble to my mix, why? Is it a marketing trick? What makes the L3 Ultra so much "better" then the L2?

From the manual:

The L3 Ultramaximizer maintains the general control surface of its predecessors the L1 and L2. It also adds a Profile selector to select different internal settings of the multiband engine. Setting the L3 up is as easy as setting up an L2. Afterwards, you can toggle through the profiles to find the best Tuning of the algorithm for the program that you are processing.

I don't know about this "treble" thing, but I know that one of the common characteristics of adding compression is a percieved increase in high end content.

popsych · Post by **popsych** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:23 pm

blackcom wrote:Dude, I wrote, the Ultra version , not the Multiversion...

The Ultramaximizer is the multiband version, the Ultramaximizer is the wide-band version....

I added the bold type blackcom. See what you said ?

Well the multimaximiser is the multiband version. Guess what the ultramaximiser is also the multiband version. They BOTH relly on the same MULTIBAND engine however for simplicity's sake the ultramaximiser hides the bands and selects the appropriate band settings via the profile option. You should read the manual mate.

@bduffy I thought compression pronnounciated low frequencies ??? Someone that knows for sure ?

ericj23 · Post by **ericj23** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:30 pm

if you assume most limited peaks are in the high energy bass region (which doesn't sound entirely unreasonable) then it would tend to make the treble comparitvely louder

but what would i know

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:05 pm

popsych wrote:@bduffy I thought compression pronnounciated low frequencies ??? Someone that knows for sure ?

I definitely recall an audio engineer telling me that, the same reason EricJ said. I can say that, to my ears, most stuff sounds a little brighter once I start dragging down the threshold...

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:26 pm

IMO it depends on which compressor you use - some color the lows more, some color the highs more, some are always transparent. Beyond the fact that you can tune some of this in using attack and release when you push down on a mix using a T-Racks compressor you can bring out some more of the details of the highs. Crunchessor can bring out other colors and has a mode that will emph/deemph the mids I think. PSP MixPressor has this also. It seems like certain compressors naturally react differently to different parts of the spectrum anyway. The new PSP MasterComp does this which is what I'm interested in since it seems controllable. I think you can get Elephant single band mastering limiter to push down on certain parts of the spectrum more than others if you want. I guess some pink noise and nulling 2 tracks together might be a way to see (in a spectrum analyzer) & hear if the compressor or limiter is hyping part of the spectrum. More important is to find out which controls or modes control it! I don't know about outboard stuff though.
2cents

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:04 pm

kylen wrote:IMO it depends on which compressor you use - some color the lows more, some color the highs more, some are always transparent. Beyond the fact that you can tune some of this in using attack and release when you push down on a mix using a T-Racks compressor you can bring out some more of the details of the highs. Crunchessor can bring out other colors and has a mode that will emph/deemph the mids I think. PSP MixPressor has this also. It seems like certain compressors naturally react differently to different parts of the spectrum anyway. The new PSP MasterComp does this which is what I'm interested in since it seems controllable. I think you can get Elephant single band mastering limiter to push down on certain parts of the spectrum more than others if you want. I guess some pink noise and nulling 2 tracks together might be a way to see (in a spectrum analyzer) & hear if the compressor or limiter is hyping part of the spectrum. More important is to find out which controls or modes control it! I don't know about outboard stuff though.
2cents

Certainly different compressors colour sound, but that's not what I was talking about; What I'm talking about is percieved increase in high end, not an actual increase in it; a psychoacoustic effect. I'll see if I can find a reference to it somewhere.

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:57 pm

bduffy wrote:What I'm talking about is percieved increase in high end, not an actual increase in it; a psychoacoustic effect. I'll see if I can find a reference to it somewhere.

OK - sounds interesting bduffy if you find anything I'd be interested. I'm getting my psychoacoustic chops in the bass fairly well but not in the treble yet.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:15 pm

Well, I just talked to my brother (audio engineer) and he said you'll just perceive an overall gain...but I swear he's the one that planted this idea...maybe it was specifically kick drums we were discussing, which would probably make more sense. If you load up a kick sample right now and compress it (assuming the gain reduction is being compensated for, I should mention), you should notice the kick becoming brighter; and this makes sense as the low content - with all the energy - is being lowered and the high content will become louder once the gain reduction is compensated for.

That must have been it.

Never mind.

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:45 am

oh well...that must've been it. Cool to have an audio engineer brother too!

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:53 pm

OK - I imported a commercial mix, cloned it to another track in Sonar4, phase inverted one of the tracks, tested a few compressors and watched in SPAN and listened. Looks like some of you developers are combing (phased - either by design or sideaffect) to get some color, others are hyping part of the spectrum, others are simply doing a flat unhyped compression. You know who you are

No - I'm not trying to reverse engineer anyone's fine works - just understand why different plugs sound flat or colored and how they add that character - and most importantly how I can control it - using what knob!

PS - If you try this in Sonar4 you have to stop the audio engine when switching effects on and off due to wierd PDC functions in Sonar. Otherwise the results will be even more confusing than looking at inversed summed output!

L3 uUltra ads top/treble to my mixes, why?