If scale is minor is tonic minor?

[peppy197]

If scale is minor is I, IV, and V minor?


or major?


I guess if the chord progression is diatonic it just follows the scales notes and if chromatic then the answer is dependant on the intent of the composer or can be said to be as desired?


allen

[nuffink]

Depends which minor.
Natural minor, harmonic minor or melodic minor (ascending or descending).

[james0tucson]

It depends on more than just the scale.
In the same key as the melodic minor scale ascending, (i) is minor, (IV) and (V) are major.
Descending, (i) is minor, (iv) and (v) are also minor.

In "natural minor", all of (i, iv, v) are minor.

But there are considerations of harmony besides just the I-IV-V triads that correspond with a scale.

What are you trying to do?

[peppy197]

I
In "natural minor", all of (i, iv, v) are minor.

.....

What are you trying to do?

yes I was thinking C#m au naturel

making the triads with roots
C#
C (not a scale note)
and A#

according to the scale mentioned
since i want to stay diatonic I simply use the scales notes?, and worry about their appelation if i care?


allen

[herodotus]

If scale is minor is I, IV, and V minor?


or major?


I guess if the chord progression is diatonic it just follows the scales notes and if chromatic then the answer is dependant on the intent of the composer or can be said to be as desired?


allen

V used as a dominant is never minor in classic diatonic tonality.

This is because the key feature of the dominant (no pun intended) is the so called leading tone (e.g. in the key of C the leading tone is b natural, making V (i.e. G) major.

Some theorists (e.g. Shenker) would even deny the 'natural' minor scale the name, insisting that it is properly called the Aeolian mode.

[Hink]

If scale is minor is I, IV, and V minor?


or major?


I guess if the chord progression is diatonic it just follows the scales notes and if chromatic then the answer is dependant on the intent of the composer or can be said to be as desired?


allen

V used as a dominant is never minor in classic diatonic tonality.

This is because the key feature of the dominant (no pun intended) is the so called leading tone (e.g. in the key of C the leading tone is b natural, making V (i.e. G) major.

Some theorists (e.g. Shenker) would even deny the 'natural' minor scale the name, insisting that it is properly called the Aeolian mode.

That might explain my chordwizard program for scales in diffent tunigs minor isn't listed. Naturally it is for chords, but only the Aeolian mode...

[peppy197]

So I have I = C#m triad, not a major

C as root gives Cdim

A# as root gives A#dim

and following the scale notes, for V one gets G#m ?? is a diatonic rule followed and is minor?

[TechNoiZ]

Some theorists (e.g. Shenker) would even deny the 'natural' minor scale the name, insisting that it is properly called the Aeolian mode.

But then many believe Schenker to be a bit of a tosser to be honest.

[herodotus]

Some theorists (e.g. Shenker) would even deny the 'natural' minor scale the name, insisting that it is properly called the Aeolian mode.

But then many believe Schenker to be a bit of a tosser to be honest.

A dead tosser to boot.

Personally I think his graphic music analyses are more useful as decorations than anything else.

But what to do when such a man gets himself taken seriously by 90% of academic theorists?

Fux is over 100 years earlier and twice as useful.

[TechNoiZ]

It is true that I have three or four Schenkerian analysis adorning my walls - they are fun to do and look cool.

^ ^ ^
3 2 1

1 5 1

Edit : no .... can't get it to line up

[gravehill]

To make things simple and to answer the original question, with C#m you are dealing with the following notes:

C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B (which in some countries is called H but you know what I mean, I hope).

This means that all chords you're going to use consist of these notes only, as long as you want to stay in diatonic C#m scale.

As you probably know, you can get the notes of any triad by taking every other note of the scale into consideration like this: Following the list of notes above, if you want the triad based on C#, you take C#, E and G# which makes the C#m chord. The 4th degree chord, starting from F# consists of F#, A and C# forming a F#m chord and 5th degree, starting from G# is G# + B + D# = G#m chord. So in this case the 1st, 4th and 5th degrees are all minor chords. Like in any other natural minor scale the 3rd, 6th and 7th degree are major and the 2nd degree is diminished.

Was this any help?

[Hink]

This means that all chords you're going to use consist of these notes only, as long as you want to stay in diatonic C#m scale.

the major chords would be E,A,and B
the minors would be C#,F#, and G# (Ab)

if I'm not mistaken....

[gravehill]

Exactly.