WTF? CBGB OMFUG RIP? OMFG!

[Voidoid Surrealist]

Landlord says lease for CBGB's won't be renewed...

[vurt]

the thread title leads me to beleive you have inhaled a rather large amount of intoxicateing chemicals of some sort,as your friend and lawyer i suggest a fast getaway in a red shark finned sportscar!
capiche!!!

[Voidoid Surrealist]

i suggest a fast getaway in a red shark finned sportscar!
capiche!!!

Sounds fun...

[dystonia_ek]

Sad news... someone should take over, just to keep the place there for historical reasons.

[james0tucson]

Landlord says lease for CBGB's won't be renewed...

Every time some back-in-the-day landmark business is going under, the first thing I want to know is,
Did they own the building, or did they rent it?

Here the problem is spelled out. Three phenomenally successful decades and they never thought it was important to put a down payment on the building?
Little late to think about it now, with real estate at an all-time high, and the club clearly in a poor negotiating position.

The person who *does* own the building gets to make the decision, throw the club out, turn it into a shoe store, tear it down, whatever.


If the City of New York was attempting to kick a property owner out of their own building, I'd be screaming bloody murder. But that's not what's happening, is it?

The article talks about the club's "owner" Kristal. But he doesn't really own it, does he? Someone else owns it. And that someone is not exactly motivated to accommodate the club, which has had problems paying rent many times in the past.

Worse, they are a sub-lessee. The people kicking them out aren't even the actual owners of the building.

The time to work on this problem was the early 1970s, when it might have actually been conceivable to purchase the property, or at least, negotiate some terms that would not bring them to today.


Don't get me wrong, I think CBGBs is a cool little club. I got in there a couple of times back in the day.

I realize NYC real estate is not cheap, but I still have a tough time having any sympathy. This same phenomenon has happened to a few clubs, bookstores, coffeehouses, in places where the real estate prices would have been down to earth. Cheaper than rent, in the 90s, in fact.

My problem is always the same. You lose me when you claim to be the "owner" of the club, bookstore, restaurant, etc., when someone else actually "owns" it.

I don't even claim to "own" my house. It belongs to a finance company. But at least I won't be kicked out by some landlord who wakes up with a hangnail and decides he wants to throw me out.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. You don't get to decide that the property you're renting should permanently follow your plan for it. That's unreasonable, and if you want it that way, you have an obligation to get it in writing from the property owner -- or else, be the property owner yourself.

Frankly, I'm surprised the margins on a nightclub can cover the kind of rent they're talking about at all.

I don't know any formulas for this, but I think that makes the property a $7,000,000 building?

[james0tucson]

Sad news... someone should take over, just to keep the place there for historical reasons.

Someone should take over? If the owner of the property doesn't want the nightclub in there, the nightclub goes.
I'd have a hard time to justify abridging the property owner's rights, just because some people think a business is a landmark.

I don't see anywhere that the building is for sale. The time to fix that problem was 30 years ago. Now it's a lost cause.

Maybe you can persuade the owner to do something about it, but it sounds like the owner is more interested in their plans than whatever money you'd wave under their noses.

[Z3R0T0N1N]

Landlord says lease for CBGB's won't be renewed...

Every time some back-in-the-day landmark business is going under, the first thing I want to know is,
Did they own the building, or did they rent it?

Here the problem is spelled out. Three phenomenally successful decades and they never thought it was important to put a down payment on the building?
Little late to think about it now, with real estate at an all-time high, and the club clearly in a poor negotiating position.

The person who *does* own the building gets to make the decision, throw the club out, turn it into a shoe store, tear it down, whatever.


If the City of New York was attempting to kick a property owner out of their own building, I'd be screaming bloody murder. But that's not what's happening, is it?

The article talks about the club's "owner" Kristal. But he doesn't really own it, does he? Someone else owns it. And that someone is not exactly motivated to accommodate the club, which has had problems paying rent many times in the past.

Worse, they are a sub-lessee. The people kicking them out aren't even the actual owners of the building.

The time to work on this problem was the early 1970s, when it might have actually been conceivable to purchase the property, or at least, negotiate some terms that would not bring them to today.


Don't get me wrong, I think CBGBs is a cool little club. I got in there a couple of times back in the day.

I realize NYC real estate is not cheap, but I still have a tough time having any sympathy. This same phenomenon has happened to a few clubs, bookstores, coffeehouses, in places where the real estate prices would have been down to earth. Cheaper than rent, in the 90s, in fact.

My problem is always the same. You lose me when you claim to be the "owner" of the club, bookstore, restaurant, etc., when someone else actually "owns" it.

I don't even claim to "own" my house. It belongs to a finance company. But at least I won't be kicked out by some landlord who wakes up with a hangnail and decides he wants to throw me out.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. You don't get to decide that the property you're renting should permanently follow your plan for it. That's unreasonable, and if you want it that way, you have an obligation to get it in writing from the property owner -- or else, be the property owner yourself.

Frankly, I'm surprised the margins on a nightclub can cover the kind of rent they're talking about at all.

I don't know any formulas for this, but I think that makes the property a $7,000,000 building?

hello
the problem with your theory in this case is that there was only half of one 'phenomenally successful' decade. The past twenty years has been ok, but nothing to write home about.
And here's the real problem: CBGB's was one of the main reasons behind the revitalization of the neighbourhood, which when it opened was a pretty rough strip; But by the time it had been there for five years, the property values would have risen beyond what the owner could have afforded, even if the current owner would have sold, which is unlikely, especieally when he saw the area starting to get better; what owner of commercial property in an area on the way up would sell? not for anything like 'fair' money at the time; And by the time 15 years had passed it was becoming prime real-estate. At this point the owner ( who has every right to be a slime sucking real-estate speculator leech ) can make an absolute FORTUNE selling to a developer, but would be even wiser to use the equity as collatoral in order to develop it himself; as i heard a person on AirAmerica say a couple days ago: CBGB should stand for "Couldn't ya Build a Giant Best-Buy (or something like that)

it is sad.
the guy said maybe he would re launch in Vegas.
made me cringe at first, but then i remembered that there are precious little clubs to play at for new independent bands in Vegas so that might be good.
If the Killers are any example, there is probably some solid talent there.

blah.

[Steven West]

It stinks, it stinks, IT STINKS!!! How come it can't be protected like The Grand Ol' Opry? It could and should last longer than this short sighted weasel of a landlord who'd rather have rent money than a legacy. Move CBCGB's? Why not move the Statue Of Liberty to the WTC site? Because you JUST DON'T!!! Whether it's a gift from the french, or the genesis birthing the last wave of Rock N' Roll... You don't mess with history!

I hope the landlords grandchildren piss on his grave and spray paint 'Fool' all over the dead pricks tombstone!

[tk421]

Aw, come on! There has to be other clubs. This kind of thing happens every 6 months in Pittsburgh. Just as a place starts getting good bands it closes. I know about the legend of CBGB, but at least you don't have to drive over 2 hours to see bands in Cleveland.

[james0tucson]

It stinks, it stinks, IT STINKS!!! How come it can't be protected like The Grand Ol' Opry?

I don't believe Opryland rents.

It could and should last longer than this short sighted weasel of a landlord who'd rather have rent money than a legacy.

That's your opinion, but do you have a case that would persuade the landlord?

I'm afraid I'll come down on the side of the property owner every single time.

Move CBCGB's? Why not move the Statue Of Liberty to the WTC site?

Because the WTC site is private property, and the Statue of Liberty is a national monument. The private owners of the WTC crater have rights that would give them a say in whether the statue goes there, and also, I believe moving the statue would literally require an act of congress.

It's a poor analogy. If you support CBGB's here, you need to give good reasons, and the case you make needs to do something besides simply giving renters more authority than the owners of the property they rent.

Because you JUST DON'T!!!

Not a persuasive argument. What are your specific reasons that CBGB's should be able to force their landlord to renew the lease?

[clueless]

http://www.cavern-liverpool.co.uk/caver ... tory73.htm

hmmm...

[Z3R0T0N1N]

james0tuscon:

just wondering: you vote rebublican?

[james0tucson]

james0tuscon:

just wondering: you vote rebublican?

I have voted for republican candidates whom I know personally, but I'm a steadfast liberal. I'm very politically active on a local level, and it's fairly easy to interact with politicians where I live, very conducive to activism and taking a personal role in government. I totally support the Republican Senator from my state, and I'd probably vote for him for president, despite my very liberal beliefs.

Just because I come down on the side of the landlord in this case, instead of trying to make an emotional case for the club being made into some sort of landmark, does not make me a right-wing conservative.

I'd really like to see the current Republicans in power, removed from power, and I'd even advocate the use of violent rebellion to do so, if it became necessary.

But there are people who run on the GOP ticket, who are well-educated, believe in a secular government, etc.

[Z3R0T0N1N]

this is true.
conservative is a term that is nearly meaningless in the current political context; these people are not conservative; they are neo-conservative - a political ideology that reeks of sociopathy, or at very best, a severe retardation of the emotional intelligence.
It is a shame.
I was just curious, I was not trying to link you to that way of thinking. As i said in my earlier post, the landlord has the rights that he is exercising, as sad as it may be to lose a club like CBGB.
...
g.

[Funkybot]

I'm thinking most of the people who are really upset about this are not the people who've been there recently or live in the immediate area. CBGB's hasn't been worth visiting in a long long time, shit even my old band played there, and I'm not opposed to it being shut down. Good sound though, especially for manhattan. But come on, their booking has sucked for years now, and they've become irrelevant. Granted that place broke a lot of great bands in the 70s, but they're basically gonna replace it with a homeless shelter. As much as I love those bands, loosing the now crap local club that used to host them, to shelter and feed homeless people seems more than reasonable to me, considering they don't own the building as has been already stated. A recent article I read on this went and asked a bunch of local NY punk kids if they cared, and even their responses were generally "no, they don't play any bands I like." Now flame away...