KVR Audio

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:46 pm

Hello to all. Right on start i will say that this is not "reverb x is better then reverb x2" topic!
These days i see that ppls need to think twice what they will write down here ak KVR

And....i do not work for anyone from named plugins !

And i am not reverb expert.
I hope that all things mentioned here are worth your few minutes. Read on...

Last few days i was checking/listening that demo clips on UAD page because like everyone else i
wanna be sure that i have some good tool to work with. Especialy reverbs(that voodoo plugins).
I like reverbs with warm character(who dont?) and many times i can hear from all over the place word
or two about R66, or Powercore, UAD, ArtsAcoustic etc...

I know some peoples who bought that UAD-1 card only because of Plate 140 and its advantages
(low or no CPU etc.) and sound. And this has been one of my biggest point in considering all this.

There at UAD page you cannot download demo (obviously) but you
can download some examples. And they sounded good to me so i decide to compare it with some
native reverbs (you have dry and wet variations for download at UAD page).

You can preview and dwonload some examples in mp3 here: (for some you will need quicktime)

http://www.uaudio.com/products/software ... /demo.html

and for my type of music i will take very first "Percussion" examples. You can download from UAD page
dry and wet here:

http://websrvr25ca.audiovideoweb.com/ca ... ry.mp3.zip

http://websrvr25ca.audiovideoweb.com/ca ... 40.mp3.zip

note: you will need some zip tool for extracting files from archive

Now take and import both examples to your favorite DAW (SX 3.1 used here). Put it in loop section and mute that
dry and listen wet example. Now hit solo on dry channel

and listen that difference. Listen that ver very
good character on wet signal. Pretty pretty good reverb heh. Save project and close your DAW.
We will need that project few minutes later...

Now you can download R66 demo from Sonic flavours here:

windows:
http://www.inuamusic.com/sonicflavours/ ... 6v1.03.zip
mac:
http://www.inuamusic.com/sonicflavours/ ... st1.02.zip

manual here:
http://www.inuamusic.com/sonicflavours/downloads/R66 manual (English).pdf
(just copy paste it if you cant click it)

After download you can simply extract R66 to your VST directory

Be aware of few things(copy paste from sonic f. page):
When you start up the VST host program, you will first be asked to input your username and registration code.
After doing that, continue by fully opening the host program and the R66 will be fully operational.

If you do not register the R66, it will regularly produce an annoying tone to remind you that it is still
running in demo mode.

You can click cancel on the registration fields to enter demo...

WARNING WARNING WARNING - don ton jump when you hear that ANNOYING tone from R66
(hope thay will fix it in future).

Open that project again and listen that difference between dry and wet again!Hit stop!
Now load R66 reverb on dry channel and load this preset created by me

You dont have to tweak anything just load that preset.

preset can be downloaded here:

Plate 1

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Now hit play...again...listen and switch between dry and wet...(dry example should not be dry anymore if
R66 is loaded with that preset)

Listen this and tell me what you think?
I think that noone can deny how R66 is close to that preset from Plate 140. I will repeat i am not
reverb parameter expert and i think that sound can be even closer to original but that will need some
more skills from experienced reverb users.

Listen how both have excellent and very very similar sound. My point of this topic is not to tell you that
R66 is better than Plate 140 or reverse. I wanna point out that you dont need to throw 1100 or 1200 euros
(Plate 140 is bundled only with UAD-1 Ultra Pak) just to get good reverb.

Of course you will have one of best digital compressors and EQ but again my motivation for this test is some cheaper solution other than throwin 1000euros (agian plate 140 is bundled only with ultra pak). Just for having realy good plate reverb.

I found that R66 can be very very close to plate 140 (at least for drums) and i just wanna share this. You should try it if you have some time.

And R66 will not eat your CPU so much. For example you can run only 4 instances of plate 140 on
single DSP card(in 44Khz depth). Try with R66. More than double without throwing CPU on knees.
And you will have some good Halls too

You shold really try it and now is group buy period if you decide to buy it

p.s. i would like to hear other users with other reverbs. AA reverb or something....and of course

sorry for bad english

billybk1 · Post by **billybk1** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:51 pm

Of course you will have one of best digital compressors and EQ but again my motivation for this test is some cheaper solution other than throwin 1000euros (agian plate 140 is bundled only with ultra pak). Just for having realy good plate reverb.

It looks like you have done your homework by doing sonic comparisons and cost analysis. If all you need is reverb, then the R66 would probably be a better fit for you. I have never heard the R66, I am sure it is a great native reverb, but I have more great reverbs than I know what to do with, at the moment, (EMT Plate 140, DreamVerb, RoomVerb and now SONAR 5's new Perfect Space 64bit Convolution Reverb, which is stunning, BTW, plus many others). Most people buy the UAD-1, for the vintage compressors and eq's, the EMT Plate 140, is well..... a nice little bonus.

BTW, you can get a Project Pak, which includes a suite of plugins, like the Pultec EQ and a free LA-2A compressor (a $149.00 value with current UA promotion), for around $340.00US. Then you could buy the EMT Plate 140, from the UA online shop, for $149.00. So really, if all you want is the Plate 140, it can be had for less than $500.00US, plus you get a suite of other great DSP plugins, like the Pultec EQ and LA-2A, for even more added value. It does pay to shop around, for prices and promotions.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:09 pm

Ok, I took the plunge and compared the R66 demo + your preset against the UAD plate 140. Well, what can I say? You managed to get the 'tone', the colour (think eq) of the reverb correct but the tail and especially the early reflections are nothing like the plate 140. It's not your fault, I tried quite hard to get them similar but alas, to no avail. The early reflections and tail seem to be much denser and less 'boomy' than the R66 reverb. Listen to the tail after the percussion loop ends and compare to the UAD one, the R66 has a very weird ringing to it at low frequencies and kind of wobbles in a bad way whereas the UAD plate is silky smooth and wobbles like a plate in motion.

Trying to recreate reverbs using another reverb is very good ear training. I've been doing it quite a lot with the Arts Accoustic reverb and can highly recommend this exercise to people.

- bManic

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:17 pm

Hey kmonkey .... so what is the purpose of this post?
Are you trying to convince yourself that the R66 is just as good as the Plate-140?
Let me help you out here.
R66 is a great reverb ..... but there is nothing like the Plate-140 out there.
One of the biggest problem with great reverbs is the CPU hit.
The UAD card is a perfect solution for this.
Even if someone builds a great native reverb (IK is working on one) I doubt you will be able to run 8 instances of it at the same time while watching your CPU cruise at 5%.

$350 for the Studio Pack + $149 for the Plate.
So for $500 you get:
1 Awesome reverbs
2 Top notch compressors and EQ's
3 A bunch of other great plugs
4 A big jolt of power to your DAW that will allow you to do stuff like run 8 super heavy reverbs without any major hit to your CPU.

I hope this helps.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:59 pm

Andrew chill out. I am not convincing my self to anything. Read my post twice.

I found that R66 can duplicate very good that very sweet sound from Plate 140. Nothing else. And since it is not so expensive i am more than pleased with this.

Just wanna share this. I did not tell that R66 is good as plate 140. Just that R66 can produce similar sound.
And your point 2 is also in my post (about compressors). I will probably spend some money for UAD just becaus of that very good 1176LN and few other plugs.

And on my Pentium 4 3,0Ghz (socket 478 by the way) R66 is takin about 3-5%. I can live with that.

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:33 pm

kmonkey wrote:Andrew chill out. I am not convincing my self to anything. Read my post twice.

I found that R66 can duplicate very good that very sweet sound from Plate 140. Nothing else. And since it is not so expensive i am more than pleased with this.

Just wanna share this. I did not tell that R66 is good as plate 140. Just that R66 can produce similar sound.
And your point 2 is also in my post (about compressors). I will probably spend some money for UAD just becaus of that very good 1176LN and few other plugs.

And on my Pentium 4 3,0Ghz (socket 478 by the way) R66 is takin about 3-5%. I can live with that.

OK no problem.
These are both fine products.
3%-5% is very impressive, I got much higher hit but my computer is not as strong.
CPU hit also varies quite a bit between presets.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:33 am

kmonkey wrote: I found that R66 can duplicate very good that very sweet sound from Plate 140. Nothing else. And since it is not so expensive i am more than pleased with this.

Here I just have to comment that for you 'duplicate' means for me, personaly, about '5%', the sound, when it comes to the UAD plate. All the important elements of the UAD plate 140 are missing (early reflections, density, place within the mix), just the 'tone' is there which has nothing to do with how the reverb performs in a mix.

just my 2 cents again, and no, I do not own an UAD-1 card.

- bManic

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:49 am

First off, any UAD-1 plugin that you don't own you can demo. In fact, you already have the Plate 140 installed if you're running UAD-1 software v3.8 or 3.9. Open your UAD-1 meter and select "authorizations" and enable the two week demo period.

Seems like your question boils down to which reverb will suit your needs really. The R66 will be more versatile, but it won't give you *that sound* that you'd get with the Plate 140. Like bmanic pointed out, the plate 140 can't give you the early reflections that a general reverb unit could, but no plate could, because plates aren't modeling the acoustics of a room. That said, the whole Dark Side of the Moon album used only one EMT plate as their reverb, so no one can acuse the UAD Plate 140 of having limited use.

billybk1 · Post by **billybk1** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:17 pm

Rusty Shackleford wrote: That said, the whole Dark Side of the Moon album used only one EMT plate as their reverb, so no one can acuse the UAD Plate 140 of having limited use.

Interesting little tidbit, Rusty, I did not know that.

I find I can use the Plate 140, as my "go to reverb", in most cases. If I want to model the acoustics, of a room, I'll use the Dreamverb. Between the Plate 140, Dreamverb and the Perfect Space Convolution Reverb (included in SONAR 5 PE), I have all my 'verb needs covered.

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:08 am

Oh for sure. The plate 140 has *that sound* which works well on just about any source material, kind of like how a Lexicon PCM-60 does (though they obviously sound different).

Yeah for modeling other types of acoustics, I haven't really found anything all that satisfying yet. Space Designer in Logic is great, but convolution can really tie up CPU when you've got tons of other plugins going. Dreamverb and Realverb Pro sound good, but don't have the density that I'd like. Hopefully UA can come up with something to compete with the TC and Lexicon offerings.

R66 and UAD Plate 140