KVR Audio

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:52 pm

I'm looking for a powerful EQ for mixing purposes, not necessarily transparent, but if it were totally transparent and allowed me just to accurately manipulate the spectrum to get it exactly where I need it, that would be nice for mix/mastering purposes.

I've been looking at Firium, which I think is very powerful and the interface is one of the best conceived I've seen in an EQ, but I'm not convinced it's as transparent as advertised. I feel the same way about Curve. But there are aspects I'm hearing from Firium (like the ability to tweak the bass and mid bass without muddiness) that I really like.

My questions are: what is your general opinion of vst linear phase EQ's, and, if you use them, which is your favorite?

Thanks so much,
Dave

snooky · Post by **snooky** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:05 pm

algorithmix EQ's are the finest software right now.

dburgan · Post by **dburgan** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:18 pm

Firium is a nice linear phase EQ. Is it transparent? Probably. I do know that if you push it to extremes it can sound very filter-ish and not like an EQ at all. For subtle EQ, it's a nice tool.

I find, however, that I turn to a more conventional EQ more often than linear phase. Specifically, I use EA's Equim and Voxengo's GlissEQ more than I use Firium. This is primarily because I can get much more surgical in those tools than in Firium. However, I also prefer the sound of GlissEQ (in high quality mode) over the Firium sound, for most purposes. It imparts a warmishness and smoothness that Firium lacks.

All that said, Voxengo's HarmoniEQ is the best sounding EQ I've ever heard, no holds barred. It's also not linear phase, AFAIK. It is, however, completely unsuitable for surgical EQ, only broad-brush EQ. But damn it sounds so good!!

Hope any of this helps ...

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:40 pm

snooky wrote:algorithmix EQ's are the finest software right now.

Unfortuantely they are also the most expensive plugins on the market, bar none. Over $1200 for a single EQ plugin? I'd much rather put that kind of money into hardware.

Christian Budde · Post by **Christian Budde** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:52 pm

Frippertronix wrote:
snooky wrote:algorithmix EQ's are the finest software right now.
Unfortuantely they are also the most expensive plugins on the market, bar none. Over $1200 for a single EQ plugin? I'd much rather put that kind of money into hardware.

a) Why do you need a linear phase 'EQ' in contrast to a minimum phase 'EQ'. Although it they do not introduce an effect called dispersion (bad in the field of communications engineering), the impulse response is usually not as good as with minimum phase EQs. In contrast to that, transients blur with linear phase EQs, which IS noticable and may introduce an anoiing pre-echo. Have you done any listening tests?

b) We're currently working on a 'Linear Phase' Mode for 'Electri-Q'. This will make it possible to directly compare minimum phase with linear phase EQ settings. Stay tuned...

Regards,

Christian

snooky · Post by **snooky** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:56 pm

Christian, that sounds WAAAY cool!

may I be a beta-tester?

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:58 pm

Christian, on Posihfopit there is a "linear" mode. Is that not linear phase?

Thanks,
Dave

Blue Cat Audio · Post by **Blue Cat Audio** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:29 am

Over $1200 for a single EQ plugin

You can get an linear phase equalizer for less! As an example our LinyEQ's price range is 15 to 30 euro depending on the options ( see http://software.bluecatonline.org/ ), bu there are others on the market.

Beware that linear phase Eq-ing is not more "transparent" than other type of eq-ing. It really depends on your needs. The main difference is that it does not affect the phase of transients as regular IIR eq do, which is not necessarly bad in a "musical" sense.

As Christian says, this is more a communication engineering issue. In your case, try several products whatever the marketing candy around them and keep your ears open!

advaya · Post by **advaya** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:58 am

This is a very interesting thread... I have been trying to come to terms with the differences of EQs... I was told that linear-phase EQs are best suited for surgical EQing and boosting/cutting an instruments fundamentals... Is that true?

I guess that EQing is one of those areas where I have not a lot of understanding...

I've been using a combination of WaveArts TrackPlug and the track EQ built into Cubase (mostly for hi/low shelving). It seems to work ok for me, but then, I am not sure what anomalies I should be listening for...

Space Boy · Post by **Space Boy** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:21 am

When treated correctly, any EQ that uses FFT is linear phase:

http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/mdft/App ... m_FFT.html

'FreEq Boy' is using the FFT correctly and is, by definition, linear phase. This property enables it to achieve extremely sharp notch filters with minimal artifacts.

BTW, it needs this property in order to capture EQ curves in a meaningful manner.

Paul

advaya · Post by **advaya** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:30 am

Space Boy wrote:When treated correctly, any EQ that uses FFT is linear phase:

http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/mdft/App ... m_FFT.html

'FreEq Boy' is using the FFT correctly and is, by definition, linear phase. This property enables it to achieve extremely sharp notch filters with minimal artifacts.

BTW, it needs this property in order to capture EQ curves in a meaningful manner.

Paul

Sounds interesting... I'll have to check it out when I get home... I think I recall someone mentioning this one in another thread discussing steep hi-pass curves. The hand-drawing of the eq curve sounds pretty cool...

helium · Post by **helium** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:45 am

When treated correctly, any EQ that uses FFT is linear phase:

http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/mdft/App ... m_FFT.html

'FreEq Boy' is using the FFT correctly and is, by definition, linear phase. This property enables it to achieve extremely sharp notch filters with minimal artifacts.

BTW, it needs this property in order to capture EQ curves in a meaningful manner.

Well, if you use FFT it doesn't neccessarily mean that the EQ is phase linear. You can choose whatever phase unlinearity you want to.

Blue Cat Audio · Post by **Blue Cat Audio** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:52 am

Well, if you use FFT it doesn't neccessarily mean that the EQ is phase linear. You can choose whatever phase unlinearity you want to.

The issue with FFT-based EQ is the latency. You cannot have zero-latency effects with signal FFT-based algorithm, which might be annoying for real time processing.

Space Boy · Post by **Space Boy** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:06 am

bluecatonline wrote:The issue with FFT-based EQ is the latency. You cannot have zero-latency effects with signal FFT-based algorithm, which might be annoying for real time processing.

Of course, there is a price to pay for everything. Latency is no issue if your host supports PDC and you don't play live.

Paul

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:06 pm

Can someone try to put into words the kind of effect phase "interference" with transients has on sound (i.e. the kind of effect liner phase EQ's avoid)? In other words, a previous post described some of the adverse effects of liner phase EQ, but what is the sonic advantage (described in subjective terms)?

Linear Phase EQ---your thoughts and preferences