Miroslav Philharmonik vs earlier Vitous libraries

[michael_maberly]

Although IK swears Miroslav Philharmonik contains all sample libraries previously released by Miroslav Vitous, I’ve heard comments to the contrary. If you’ve experienced both the IK product and earlier versions:

Does IK’s Miroslav Philharmonik contain all of Vitous’ previously released libraries?

Are IK’s Miroslav Philharmonik samples identical in quality to the originals? If not, how do they compare?

Thanks!

[Squids]

You've heard to the contrary? Where? Also, I'd like to know what isn't included. Myself and the Sonic Reality team did the sounds for Philharmonik. We included all of the original Miroslav orchestral libraries plus gigabytes of additional material. The quality is not only as good but better in many ways. The original sounds had some issues with tuning, clicks etc. that were all cleaned up. Tremendous amount of TLC was applied to all of the sounds and it took us a lot of man hours to create. But, it puzzles me to hear something like this especially without more details.

[michael_maberly]

You've heard to the contrary? Where? Also, I'd like to know what isn't included. Myself and the Sonic Reality team did the sounds for Philharmonik. We included all of the original Miroslav orchestral libraries plus gigabytes of additional material. The quality is not only as good but better in many ways. The original sounds had some issues with tuning, clicks etc. that were all cleaned up. Tremendous amount of TLC was applied to all of the sounds and it took us a lot of man hours to create. But, it puzzles me to hear something like this especially without more details.

Thanks for your thorough reply, Squids - I appreciate it.

I've been getting contradictory info from some retail vendors I've contacted. Some have said that IK's Miroslav ("MP") contains only a small portion of the original libraries, and that the quality is inferior to the originals. I've spent more than a week contacting IK, Ilio (who sells the originals), and others, so that I can try to make sense of these disparate opinions. I've also re-contacted some of the above vendors after eventually hearing directly from IK. It's very easy for anyone out there to say whatever they want (substantiated or not), and that's why I've posed these questions to this forum.

I'm actually quite keen about MP, and am looking forward to being able to hear some of it/test-drive it when it (finally) becomes available as a NFS demo locally.

Thanks again for your reply.

[Squids]

You've heard to the contrary? Where? Also, I'd like to know what isn't included. Myself and the Sonic Reality team did the sounds for Philharmonik. We included all of the original Miroslav orchestral libraries plus gigabytes of additional material. The quality is not only as good but better in many ways. The original sounds had some issues with tuning, clicks etc. that were all cleaned up. Tremendous amount of TLC was applied to all of the sounds and it took us a lot of man hours to create. But, it puzzles me to hear something like this especially without more details.

Thanks for your thorough reply, Squids - I appreciate it.

I've been getting contradictory info from some retail vendors I've contacted. Some have said that IK's Miroslav ("MP") contains only a small portion of the original libraries, and that the quality is inferior to the originals. I've spent more than a week contacting IK, Ilio (who sells the originals), and others, so that I can try to make sense of these disparate opinions. I've also re-contacted some of the above vendors after eventually hearing directly from IK. It's very easy for anyone out there to say whatever they want (substantiated or not), and that's why I've posed these questions to this forum.

I'm actually quite keen about MP, and am looking forward to being able to hear some of it/test-drive it when it (finally) becomes available as a NFS demo locally.

Thanks again for your reply.

Again, if you don't mind, I'd like to no more specific information. Which dealers are giving you this misinformation? I need to know so we can contact them and make sure they know that it is quite the opposite of what they are saying (I almost find it hard to believe since it is written everywhere that we've included all of the original library and quite a bit more).

Anyway, the original orchestral library 6 CDs and about 2 gigs in size. The Choir was 4 CDs. Mirolsav Philharmonik is 7 gigs on 2 DVDs. So, obviously it includes even more material than the original. It is not an opinion, it is a fact supported by the mere specs of it. Have a look at www.philharmonik.com for more details on the rest of the specs. Now, the quality of the sound is subjective. The only difference can be the sound of the sample engine vs another. They do differ. But, the SampleTank engine is a nice player for it for many reasons. Not only is the traditional sample playback engine rich and warm sounding (one of the more musical Sonic Reality has worked with and we've worked with them all) but the fact that it has other types of sample playback engines such as STRETCH (which allows for independent control of the pitch, tempo and harmonics) makes it even more powerful than these samples ever were in any other sampler before. Again, for me to just say that is one thing but when that video is up (and it should be very soon) you can see and hear what I mean first hand.

Also, we own the full rights to the Miroslav archives now. So, ILIO gets them from us. We also have them for sale on www.esoundz.com and even have some discontinued Miroslav products that ILIO doesn't carry anymore. ILIO has been a Sonic Reality distributor for years so when we took over Miroslav completely I figured we might as well have ILIO still sell it.

If you really want to know the true details about any of this kind of stuff, it doesn't get any more from the horse's mouth than asking me. If you doubt anything I say then tell me so I can provide proof if necessary (seems like you doubted IK for some reason... don't know why though! There is a reason all of that information is put together... to communicate what the product has to offer.)

[harmony gardens]

Just to chime in here and make a few comments. I don't have the original sets, so can't speak to any differences, but I'm a very happy Philharmonik user.


It's a stunning set. I have GPO also, and while that's a nice set too, Philharmonik can really take care of my orchestral needs. If there is any problem with having all these great sounds, is that one is tempted to spend a lot of time just doodling with the sounds, and not getting down to serious work. I have somewhat modest orchestral needs, so take that into account, but to me, Mirslov has greatly exceeded my high expectations. I'm very glad I bought it, and think ANYONE who has any interest at all in orchestral sounds would find this a useful tool. For the price, it's an amazing deal.

[michael_maberly]

Again, if you don't mind, I'd like to no more specific information. Which dealers are giving you this misinformation?

I'm not completely comfortable with sharing that info: those vendors gave their opinions 'off the record', thereby - I believe - expecting confidentiality. What I can tell you is that I found their sites online, where they advertised that they are selling the older Miroslav Vitous sample libraries. A quick perusal of such sites will bring you a few vendors, and you'll be able to contact them yourself -- which, given what I've so far shared with you, isn't a bad idea.

Anyway, the original orchestral library 6 CDs and about 2 gigs in size. The Choir was 4 CDs. Mirolsav Philharmonik is 7 gigs on 2 DVDs . . .

This sounds good

Now, the quality of the sound is subjective. . . But, the SampleTank engine is a nice player for it for many reasons. . .

Thanks for this feedback.

Again, for me to just say that is one thing but when that video is up (and it should be very soon) you can see and hear what I mean first hand.

I'm hoping to be able to go hear/try out a demo at a local store, whenever IK sends a NFS copy there. That will instantly let me know how it sounds relative to other formats and libraries.

Also, we own the full rights to the Miroslav archives now. So, ILIO gets them from us.

Yes; as I wrote earlier, IK did eventually get back to me, and filled me in on this important info.

If you really want to know the true details about any of this kind of stuff, it doesn't get any more from the horse's mouth than asking me. If you doubt anything I say then tell me so I can provide proof if necessary (seems like you doubted IK for some reason... don't know why though!

Squids, I appreciate that you're one of MP's designers, and that that automatically means you've been very close to it, know it intimately, and would naturally be unhappy to know that some - out there - have been maligning your work. Because of all of that, I'm inclined to believe you. As to why I wouldn't necessarily have believed all of IK's promotional material on it, please consider this: first -- as strange as it may seem -- I haven't known much about IK; second, I think it wise to approach anysales pitch with a healthy dose of skepticism. Now that you know that I've had little knowledge of IK, and none -- till today -- of your role in MP, I hope you won't take my previous skepticism personally.

While I've got your attention, I'm wondering if you can give me some help regarding MP and CPU usage -- I left a post about exactly that on the forum, earlier today.

Thanks!

[DevonB]

Well, I do own the original MV library (Have for almost 10 years now), and once Philharmonik arrives, I'll be happy to comment on such things as 'lesser quality', and be sure to cover it in my review. I severely doubt that Philly is of lesser quality than the 'original' library.

How are they basing their opinion on this anyway? Do these people even own the original library to actually compare it to? What format did they have it in? When was even thelast time they played with the original library? On what unit? In which studio? Something sounds fishy to me...

Devon

[DevonB]

I'm not completely comfortable with sharing that info: those vendors gave their opinions 'off the record', thereby - I believe - expecting confidentiality. What I can tell you is that I found their sites online, where they advertised that they are selling the older Miroslav Vitous sample libraries. A quick perusal of such sites will bring you a few vendors, and you'll be able to contact them yourself -- which, given what I've so far shared with you, isn't a bad idea.

<--- at the dealers, not you, Michael. How'd you like to be holding onto product that sells for $2499 for the original library, then later, it gets released for $599 instead? Magically, the 'original', more expensive, version is going to sound better.

Devon

[nexussynth]

I did own the original library. I bought it way back in late fall 1994 when it first appeared in ads in Keyboard magazine. I spent what was (especially back then!) a veritable fortune on it, about $3500( ). I used it in my K-2000 and later in an EMU E4K as well. It sounded fabulous back then but there was only Roland's library and some junk CDs.

This library HAS stood the test of time. What IK/SR have done is beautiful. This library never sounded this good before, no bull. There is more multisampling on many instruments (or stretch?) and the many tuning problems and some quirks have been elimnated.

The playback engine is very warm sounding and rivals any others on the market now. The user interface is GREAT! You have everything you would want to do with orchestral samples right there in a very easy to get to manner.

The CSR reverb is a fabulous addition to this library. I leave it on all the time.

I never owned the Vitous choir and piano CDs but they are very very good. The choir is basically all I need in that department, though I don't compose choral music specifically.

The other stuff like the pipe organ are a good match tonally to the orchestra.

I have been using this library almost exclusively since getting it and not used my EWQLSO Gold and GPO that much. I only use my SAM brass for it's special effects once in a while now. This library has such a warm classical sound that it is addicting.

Squids wasn't b.s.'ing when he was talking this library up a few month ago. It really is what it claims to be. I was hoping for it to be a big improvement over the original and it surely is.

One last thing: No other library I have seems to blend all the instruments together as well as this one. The ensemble sounds cohesive and real. The instruments don't compete with each other and the percussions work really well, sounding like they are coming from the back of the orchestra instead of at the front like a weird 'snare drum concerto' or something.

Get this library. The keyswitch stuff is not that important if you sequence your parts (I'm not a live player, I have to sequence ). The beautiful sound IS important!

[michael_maberly]

<--- at the dealers, not you, Michael. How'd you like to be holding onto product that sells for $2499 for the original library, then later, it gets released for $599 instead? Magically, the 'original', more expensive, version is going to sound better.

Of course, I'd thought the same thing, Devon, but it was also possible there was something I didn't know, and that's why I've done more research. MP, according to what I've read here today, will have serious implications not only for the previous Miroslav libraries, but for all the other expensive libraries out there. When something this big (and this provocative to the industry) occurs, taking a close looks seems warranted.

[michael_maberly]

I did own the original library. . . . . .What IK/SR have done is beautiful. This library never sounded this good before, no bull. . . .I have been using this library almost exclusively since getting it and not used my EWQLSO Gold and GPO that much. . . .
Squids wasn't b.s.'ing when he was talking this library up a few month ago. It really is what it claims to be. I was hoping for it to be a big improvement over the original and it surely is.

Wow! Can't beat that for a beautiful review! Thanks!

The keyswitch stuff is not that important if you sequence your parts

I, too, love a beautiful sound, but do you mean that you don't use any substitute for keyswitching when sequencing, or that you're happy with workarounds? If so, care to describe them?


As well, if you -- or anyone else -- would like to take a look at my post re. MP and CPU usage, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks - to all - for taking the time to express your feelings about MP.

[DevonB]

<--- at the dealers, not you, Michael. How'd you like to be holding onto product that sells for $2499 for the original library, then later, it gets released for $599 instead? Magically, the 'original', more expensive, version is going to sound better.

Of course, I'd thought the same thing, Devon, but it was also possible there was something I didn't know, and that's why I've done more research. MP, according to what I've read here today, will have serious implications not only for the previous Miroslav libraries, but for all the other expensive libraries out there. When something this big (and this provocative to the industry) occurs, taking a close looks seems warranted.

Well obviously, it'll have an impact on the original library. For other libraries? Personally, I don't think so. Philly seems to be priced right for what you get. It's not VSL, and I'm pretty sure Squids would even say that it wasn't meant to compete with the highest of the high end libraries. (Smack me down if I'm wrong Dave. ) Each orchestral library has its place and its appropriate price-point. The original MV library was grossly overpriced for many years ($3500 originally, then $2500 more recently.) Philharmonik brought some nice improvements, and brought the price down to a level that is more appropriate and in-line with the current market.

Each orchestral library has its own strengths and weaknesses. It's a matter of doing the research to see which library fits with your needs, and keeping in mind that no one single library is 'best'. Just think of it like another tool in the tool box. Just some tools, like a swiss army knife, are handy for a lot of things.

Devon

[synergy543]

Squids, there are many programs I run across that I would like to change on the sample level. For example in the Flute 1, when you go from D3 to Eb3 the sound jumps from the left to the right. In Kontakt, it would be easy for me to fix this but in the Preset IK Player is there a way I can fix these myself? Or must we wait for a 'factory fix'? It sure would be nice if we could do this ourselves otherwise our it kind of puts a monkey wrench in the tracks we're recording. What's the solution?

[synergy543]

Also Squids, why is every patch set default to 12dB slope filter? This is more appropriate for a synth than a sampler which would be smoother using the 6dB filter. What's the logic here?

[Squids]

Squids, there are many programs I run across that I would like to change on the sample level. For example in the Flute 1, when you go from D3 to Eb3 the sound jumps from the left to the right. In Kontakt, it would be easy for me to fix this but in the Preset IK Player is there a way I can fix these myself? Or must we wait for a 'factory fix'? It sure would be nice if we could do this ourselves otherwise our it kind of puts a monkey wrench in the tracks we're recording. What's the solution?

Uh, well you can always report an issue and we can have a look for future updates if there is an unintentional thing (which that "sounds" like but we'd have to have a look ourselves). But, luckily, you just hit ZONE and use the new PAN (that is per zone now... not the one on the right near the volume but within the editing features) and you can save that back as a child preset with the adjustments you wanted.

As for your other question about the 12b filter, the reason is because of the way it sounds. The 6db filter does not allow the possibility of resonance to be used and the 12b does which can sweeten the sound sometimes. Of course, if you don't like it you can always choose your own settings.