KVR Audio

CrownRoyal · Post by **CrownRoyal** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:37 pm

I was just thinking about something and I was wondering what you thought about it. Please comment, if you wish.

I have to preface this and say that I own a license for all of my software. I use a Mac and have done so for several years. I'm not sure if there's even such a thing as "cracked" Mac software? Anyhow, listen up for a minute.

I'm getting ready to move my licenses over to this Receptor I'm getting. I'm checking all the compatibility lists and came across Pluggo. I like some of Pluggo's effects and was hoping to use it but it seems that it's not-compat because of the iLok deal. I have a license on my iLok for it but not on the Receptor's iLok.

So, I have a little ethical problem. I could run a cracked copy of Pluggo on the Receptor and it would probably work since Pluggo Jr works (I'm guessing).

I've seen the FAQ about this at Muse. I'm thinking, well, I paid for a license and since I'm not using the license on my host, why not "use" it on the Receptor. Do you follow me?

Or is that wrong? I'd like to know what other people think about this. I'm on the fence but leaning towards not doing it. I'm frustrated that I can't get EVERY plug-in I have a license for on the Receptor. Maybe I should just make do with what I have? I'd like to take the Receptor to gigs without the PC. That's why I'd like to get ALL my plugs on the Receptor.

Please understand, I'm not faulting Muse or Cycling. I paid for my stuff and can prove it.

What do you think?

ClifAnd2k · Post by **ClifAnd2k** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:02 pm

The ethical thing to do is comply with your pluggo license. When in doubt, ask the licensor what their policy is. They may permit some sort of transfer, although they certainly won't ok the use of a cracked copy.

TaoMannaDon · Post by **TaoMannaDon** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:05 pm

ClifAnd2k gave you your answer.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of software licensing. But this sounds a little like using a "cracked" copy of something because the copy you bought has a protection scheme you don't like. If I have a TV I stole from Circuit City sitting on top of the TV I bought at Circuit City, no matter which TV I watch, I'm still a crook. If I can justify what I'm doing because I probably won't get caught, I'm still a crook. If I ask another crook's opinion and he says it's ok, I'm still a crook. If I'm not smart enough to understand the concept of "stealing", I'm still a crook.

ouroboros · Post by **ouroboros** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:08 pm

Does a Receptor compatible version exist at all?

edoosx · Post by **edoosx** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:10 pm

i think that you should have the right to use your legal copy of pluggo where you want. since it needs the ilok, the developer is sure that you don't run the sw on two machines at the same time using just one license. this should be enough for the developer. but even if developers are aware of cracks they still seem sometimes to prefer to make life difficult to legal owners; doing so they push more legal users to use cracked software. for me it should be so:
1- when you buy a license for a plug it should be valid for all formats (with exception of tdm for price tag reasons) with no need of double buy or cross platform or whatever necessity.
2- no ilok please, no challenge/response please, just serial.

TaoMannaDon · Post by **TaoMannaDon** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:28 pm

edoosx wrote: but even if developers are aware of cracks they still seem sometimes to prefer to make life difficult to legal owners; doing so they push more legal users to use cracked software.

When a person commits an illegal act like this they are acting on their own free will. There are a lot of things I don't like in this world; but, so far, none of those things have overcome my ability to understand and appreciate the difference between right and wrong.

CrownRoyal · Post by **CrownRoyal** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:34 pm

TaoManna Don wrote:ClifAnd2k gave you your answer.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of software licensing. But this sounds a little like using a "cracked" copy of something because the copy you bought has a protection scheme you don't like. If I have a TV I stole from Circuit City sitting on top of the TV I bought at Circuit City, no matter which TV I watch, I'm still a crook. If I can justify what I'm doing because I probably won't get caught, I'm still a crook. If I ask another crook's opinion and he says it's ok, I'm still a crook. If I'm not smart enough to understand the concept of "stealing", I'm still a crook.

That's kinda what I thought, Tao. Cycling isn't going to "Receptorize" Pluggo. The TV thing you mention isn't quite the same, though. It's more like a book. Like stealing a book from the library and then replacing it with one you own. I don't end up with two physical things, if you get my meaning. I stole a book but replaced it. I still stole it in the first place.

Certainly, it's got to be against the agreement. LOL! But what if the anti-piracy software causes performance problems on your computer? And the only way to run it is with a cracked copy. Does that happen? I had a terrible time with the iLok software on my laptop. I chose not to convert to PC because of those issues.

It makes me think and I was wondering what others thought. I wish it was just a name and serial number.

Thanks for your insight. It's very interesting.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:34 pm

Whether something is illegal or not depends on the laws where you live. Whether something is ethical or not depends on an individual's point of view.

CrownRoyal · Post by **CrownRoyal** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:41 pm

ouroboros wrote:Does a Receptor compatible version exist at all?

I don't know. I'm only supposing. I'm clueless about even finding such a thing. I was just thinking about the ethics at this point. I've heard there's everything available but I've never done it.

I'm not sure if it's a crime. Is it? Is the use of a cracked program a crime if you have a license for it? I'm not using multiple copies. Just one license on a Receptor. I'm torn. It's not physical and I think that's what is bugging me.

I remember, as a kid, taping friends records. I had no idea I was breaking the law! I thought that was okay. Like reading a book someone lent you.

(yes, I know ignorance of the crime doesn't make it right)

CrownRoyal · Post by **CrownRoyal** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:45 pm

TaoManna Don wrote:
edoosx wrote: but even if developers are aware of cracks they still seem sometimes to prefer to make life difficult to legal owners; doing so they push more legal users to use cracked software.
When a person commits an illegal act like this they are acting on their own free will. There are a lot of things I don't like in this world; but, so far, none of those things have overcome my ability to understand and appreciate the difference between right and wrong.

So, I can't say the devil (devil-oper?) made me do it?

You're right, Tao. I agree with you.

Thanks again, guys.

It's very interesting.

TaoMannaDon · Post by **TaoMannaDon** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:56 pm

CrownRoyal wrote: The TV thing you mention isn't quite the same, though. It's more like a book. Like stealing a book from the library and then replacing it with one you own. I don't end up with two physical things, if you get my meaning. I stole a book but replaced it. I still stole it in the first place.

Certainly, it's got to be against the agreement. LOL! But what if the anti-piracy software causes performance problems on your computer? And the only way to run it is with a cracked copy. Does that happen? I had a terrible time with the iLok software on my laptop. I chose not to convert to PC because of those issues.

The TV analogy might not have been a perfect fit for your situation; the point was that "stealing is stealing" no matter what the justification.

Personally, I don't like some software protection schemes myself and I try to avoid buying products that use the more aggravating ones. I have had disastrous consequences using pace in the past, without even an "I'm sorry" from the vendor whose defective implementation of pace caused the problem. Hopefully, a stable and uncrackable standard will eventually emerge. We all deserve better when we spend our money on a product.

TaoMannaDon · Post by **TaoMannaDon** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:06 pm

message deleted by author

DanTimis · Post by **DanTimis** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:23 pm

CrownRoyal wrote:So, I have a little ethical problem. I could run a cracked copy of Pluggo on the Receptor and it would probably work since Pluggo Jr works (I'm guessing).

You are guessing wrong

This thread is very long already. I will read all the posts later. Right now I'm going to answer just to the technical problem, which makes your ethical problem moot.

The reason we offer only Pluggo Jr. is that nothing else from Cycling '74 works with Receptor. We tried.

We would like to support Pluggo as well as other Cycling '74 products, and we will. Right now our priority is getting plug-ins like Ivory or Symphonic Choir ready to ship.

arguru · Post by **arguru** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:28 pm

What do you think?

Dont buy software with stupid protection schemes.

Hopefully, a stable and uncrackable standard will eventually emerge.

As long as the software runs fully native in your system, this is -impossible-.

The only uncrackable scheme would be using your computer as dummy terminal to control software hosted in a secure remote server, technology and resources needed for this would be ridiculously expensive and complex for something like today's DAW standards. Maybe in 2097.

CrownRoyal · Post by **CrownRoyal** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:35 pm

TaoManna Don wrote:
CrownRoyal wrote: The TV thing you mention isn't quite the same, though. It's more like a book. Like stealing a book from the library and then replacing it with one you own. I don't end up with two physical things, if you get my meaning. I stole a book but replaced it. I still stole it in the first place.

Certainly, it's got to be against the agreement. LOL! But what if the anti-piracy software causes performance problems on your computer? And the only way to run it is with a cracked copy. Does that happen? I had a terrible time with the iLok software on my laptop. I chose not to convert to PC because of those issues.
The TV analogy might not have been a perfect fit for your situation; the point was that "stealing is stealing" no matter what the justification.

But is it stealing?

Seriously. Have I taken something? I bought a license to use the software. I'm using one copy of it. I don't think it's stealing in the classic definition. Or is the use of cracked software illegal, period. I think it probably is.

It's for my own selfish reasons I want Pluggo on my Receptor. I'm not selfish enough to break the law, though.

Thanks guys! It's been an interesting thread.

Ethics question about Receptor plug-ins