KVR Audio

rachmiel · Post by **rachmiel** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:26 pm

greetings kvrrs.

i would like your opinions on whether the concept of the "outsider" has relevance within the field of contemporary electronic music.

by outsider i mean someone whose music does not inhabit a genre/style (ambient, idm, etc.) or a simple mix of genres (ambient+goth, trance+hardcore, etc.). someone whose music stands outside of the known, outside of tradition/history/fashion.

are there any outsiders around these days?

thanks for your help,

rachMiel

mckenic · Post by **mckenic** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:43 pm

Hey Sir,

How are things with you?

Your question - well is there such things as real outsiders in our media saturated world? With every second music journo happily pimping styles and inventing genres / sub genres these days I would be of the opinion that a true outsider today is a rare breed more interested in the aestitic of CREATING art than catagory jumping to avoid the POP trap...

I have, of late, only found outsiders in poetry, high art, plays and performance art.

Consider if you will - asking about outsiders is categorising them and they are not outsiders any more

Your opinion on them

Dave

fake · Post by **fake** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:49 pm

No.

fake

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:37 pm

(As I adjust my horn rimmed glasses and adjust my pocket protector...) I might be one of the biggest 'outsiders' to date fella's? (Amongst other things that makes my mommy cry. Yuck, sniff, gufaw)

If you check out
www.soundclick.com/stevenwest
there's alot of my music that I don't think truely 'fits' the label I give them... Because I don't know what half those labels mean anyways? I just like electronic sounds and mutating genres within it... Sometimes controversial or downright blasphemous, other times 'Who knew it could be so good?'

Okay, so I fart with synths and samplers making strange beats and noises... But if you go to
www.mixposure.com/steven-west
you can get a more 'pop sense' of what I can do with some of my electronic learnings from Soundclick offerings. Quite different in scope, but some of the production tricks are tell tale signs that I'm trying to broaden the typical realm of 'rock', 'AOR', 'pop', etc.

Am I trying to be the next big thing in anything...? No. Am I out to attack 'big things' and turn them upside down, inside out, or just make it look easy - you bet!

Do I get alot of accolades for this? No. Do I piss alot of people of by 'yanking their chain' and making them think they're getting something 'typical' at first - you betcha!

I'm so much an 'Outsider' - I should be in a book by S.E. Hinton! (Froy-leiben with the young boys and the t-shirts and Leif Garrett and all. Yuck, sniff, guffaw!)

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:52 pm

I should also add, Tuz here should be called 'Pony Boy' as well. He's quite the 'Outsider' in his own right.

He keeps me company on the back stoop many of times. A true versatile and explorative bro.

We can be so 'outside' - Martin and Lewis couldn't even find us!

rachmiel · Post by **rachmiel** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:10 am

> Consider if you will - asking about outsiders is categorising them and they are not outsiders any more ...

a great point. maybe outsiders are extremely fragile, like all rare/threatened species: touch them, even look at them too hard, and they wilt (or go into hiding).

> Your opinion on them ...

i believe they are out there. but like you say ... by their definition, they are very hard to find.

thanks for your thoughts.

rachMiel

rachmiel · Post by **rachmiel** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:12 am

steven,

thanks for your thoughts. and i will check out your music, see if it sounds outsider to me.

rachMiel

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:17 am

being 90% hermit im more "insider" than "outsider"

too many people try to label too many things,life was easier when we just had music we liked and music we didnt like.
music is more like food to me if im hungry ill eat pretty much most things that are edible

mckenic · Post by **mckenic** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:48 am

rachmiel wrote:> Consider if you will - asking about outsiders is categorising them and they are not outsiders any more ...

a great point. maybe outsiders are extremely fragile, like all rare/threatened species: touch them, even look at them too hard, and they wilt (or go into hiding).

By studying, we change that which we wish to observe

rachmiel wrote:> Your opinion on them ...

i believe they are out there. but like you say ... by their definition, they are very hard to find.

Which, in my opinion, makes them all the more fragile and such a beauty when found... is there really art for art sake - beauty for beautys these days?

I cling to the hope there is... and wallow when I find it!

Dave

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:50 am

mckenic wrote:
rachmiel wrote:> Consider if you will - asking about outsiders is categorising them and they are not outsiders any more ...

a great point. maybe outsiders are extremely fragile, like all rare/threatened species: touch them, even look at them too hard, and they wilt (or go into hiding).
By studying, we change that which we wish to observe

and as dr lecter once said "we come to covet that which we see everyday"
so you go studyin outsiders youll only end up wanting one

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:52 am

Generally I think "outsiders" are the people who at this moment everyone abhores in some way. They will be ridiculed and ignored. But when they die or pass over into a more conventional format, people will suddenly start to appreciate their older work.

Of course this is just my opinion. Perhaps it's just all bullshit and what actually exists is just music.

WoJ · Post by **WoJ** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:55 am

half of the music made on this forum is "outsider music", but whats outside to someone makes complete sense to someone else.

WoJ

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:45 am

Thanks Rachmiel.

I think being 'outsider' is really the lack of fear for trying anything. There's many here that may try a 'country' song, or a 'disco' song - and go back to their 'heavy metal' or 'ambient' quickly thereafter whether they were good at something else or not. For me, I honestly feel like I'm not 'in anything' to go back to? That Jungle is just a modern Polka or vice versa, and why not try fusing the two? That Ministry became nothing more special than Motorhead, with half the talent literally. When one can think, say, do, and be prepared for reprisals for those kinds of comments and/or creations - they're going to be pretty 'outside' IMO?

The problem now with many here and elsewhere is 'sampling' and 'DJ's'. DJ's especially, are probably the biggest 'outsiders' - as they can quickly 'mash' and mutate things at the drop of a hat. Sex Pistols with The Carpenters to Fat Boy Slim working in a Jim Morrison recital over a techno tune. Brilliant at first listen, but quickly becomes a novelty and ill attempt in quick time (pardon the pun

)

I think a true 'outsider' will immerse themselves into something irrelevant to their current and past influences and absorb what they can from it. And doesn't mean it has to be used right away for attention either. The mere fact that someone is absorbing something that 'peer pressure', 'label', or 'dedication' says they shouldn't... That's what makes them an 'outsider' to me. Knowledge without legion is a truely frightening thing to any and all groups that are devout and faithful.

Ween might have been the last succesful 'outsider' band that seriously played with novelty, and were just damn good at it. But 'novelty' will always be a 'rub on tattoo', and will eventually fade. I try to avoid 'novelty' as much as possible, or reserve it for those looking for 'novel ideas'. Most will say that's just 'cheap jingle whoring', while some might say 'that's way too talented and dangerous'?

The fact I know that, and carry on regardless in the face of it... I don't have too many friends, fans, and lucrative long term deals coming my way. And it's getting cold and lonely out here indeed.

Better throw another John Lennon album on the fire!

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:51 am

what makes you an outisder anyway?
is it the music you make or is it the methods you use to make that music?
is it in fact more the fact that its a certain person making a certain sound? ie lets say maddonna suddenly makin a death metal album?
one mans outsider is another mans bedfellow perhaps?

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:17 am

I think it's the sheer disregard for what I have, and the talent I have to use it. Yet, the responsibilty I feel that I want to challange myself and the listener in the best way that I can. Expect nothing, revel in everything.

Madonna's a good one to bring up. She's a pretty good 'outsider' too. Her latest 'Hung Up' I think is total dated easy schmessy crap that Daft Punk could've done in their sleep... But Madonna, regardless of past accomplishments and failures that could put this latest to shame in a snap - carries on and stands behind it.

Yes, she could've put Flood and Alan Moulder into a room and said 'I want the freshest most modern sound you guys can give me. I want Ray Of Light to sound like Ray Of Shit today.' Bit no, just give her a Abba loop and a Sherman Filtertank and she's good for the new millenium. That's a 'gutsy outsider' if you ask me.

outsider electronistes?