recording tips pls - how to get a heavy tone & keep clar

[Vantre]

Hi folks,

I'm trying to record something but really struggling to get the right sound recorded.

I'm trying to get a guitar sound which is very big, full & heavy but also retains a lot of clarity as I need some distinct harmonies in the chords to really ring out.

The problem I have is that to get the big heavy sound I'm using a fair bit of distortion & losing the definition. But if I back off the distortion to get the clarity, I'm losing any 'oomph'...

I'm experimening with layering tracks at the moment but that's not been very fruitful so far (kind of just hearing one heavy mush & another spineless clean track )

If I had to describe what I'm looking for, I'd probably say it's somewhere between Just by Radiohead & Down in a Hole by Alice in Chains - although that's probably immensely vague

if anyone's got any ideas, then they're all much appreciated!

cheers

V

[P.T.]

It's very hard to get chords to work if you use a lot of distortion. This is why Guitarists developed the idea of the "power chord" using only the root and 5th.

Maybe try putting the different notes of the chord on different tracks. Then they may not interact in the same way as they do when played all together.

[daGuru]

Might help if you tell us your setup...

[Vantre]

Might help if you tell us your setup...

well I'm using a guitar port into cubase SX3. I think I'm making headway now by lots of layering, with a jangly chorused clean sound over a heavier set of power chords. (each part is doubled & panned left and right).

I'm kind of getting there but the whole thing sounds like it needs to 'gel' a bit more. I have a feeling I need to be a bit cleverer with EQ as I get the impression the overall guitar sound needs a little bit of a treble boost without getting too fizzy...make sense?

any more tips, general or eq specific would be greatfully received

[daGuru]

By setup, I kinda meant amps, mics, or which simulation stuff u are using...

Also, feel free to chuck up some audio examples, it's easier that way

[Vantre]

By setup, I kinda meant amps, mics, or which simulation stuff u are using...

Also, feel free to chuck up some audio examples, it's easier that way

ok then, there's 8 bars of the intro here (GWRW intro);

http://www.myspace.com/vantrenin

In terms of amps/mics, it's all in the Line 6 Guitar Port. I've got 1 heavy track panned L&R (which is a marshall sim about 60% drive and the bass backed off) and I've got another clean, chorused track panned L&R too (with the mids bumped up).

It's getting closer to what I want but there's still not quite the oomph & clarity that I want, and the whole thing sounds a bit flat.

heeyyyelp!

[fritzman]

ok then, there's 8 bars of the intro here (GWRW intro);

http://www.myspace.com/vantrenin

heeyyyelp!

Hi Vantre,

can't get it to play here with Firefox ...
Please do a mp3 version.


Best wishes, FRitz

[Vantre]

thx for looking Fritz. In theory you should be able to download it as well from that link above, but if not then try this;

http://www.aotx93.dsl.pipex.com/GRWR%20Intro.mp3

cheers

V

[fritzman]

Hi Vantre,

I think you should try different amps. AFAIK the toneport is basically a POD, right? I suggest a Plexi doubled with a Rectifier. Not much gain on the recti and add some highs to bring the solid edge of the recti more to the front. Maybe you even like one of the class A amps (e.g. modern class A). I would add the oomph later with some compression where you emphasize shortly the attack and raise some sustain. To add some edge later a plugin like voxengo tubeamp is good, too. Make sure to not overdo this one which can fastly sound poor then.


Best wishes, FRitz

[daGuru]

Eeeek... now I know it's POD, I better keep my mouth shut GR2 man here... better still, use a REAL amp or many

ps. My NIN remix @ http://www.myspace.com/mp3comauguruone (I kept even closer to the orig. mix

[sboullion]

The key usually is to back off the distortion,and layer tracks to get the thickness.The key to layering,however,is to change your tone for each track.Perhaps use the neck pickup on one track and the bridge on the next.Change tone settings also.When you layer the same sound over and over,You get buildup in certain frequency areas,which just makes everything worse.You've got to be especially careful with PODs and other digital "amp modellers".Be sure to use less distortion than You think You need.These digital modellers get very brittle with excessive distortion.Remember,it doesn't matter how good it sounds soloed,it's how in sounds in the context of the mix.Think about Zakk's tone.Straight into a Marshall JCM800,usually triple-tracked.

When I go direct I use a Hughes and Kettner tubeman,and I'm pretty happy with it.It's all tube,and it's a little pricey,but it doesn't sound so harsh.I've gotten to the point that I hate my POD and J-Station.Haven't used them in ages.

[Vantre]

hey nice idea stephen - I've just been reading up on the tubeman & it sounds very cool! are there many other options that do this sort of thing?

[sboullion]

Vox makes a tabletop version of the Valvetronix that I hear,from reputable sources,sounds very good.It's got a digital front end and a tube back end.I will eventually have one,but once again,they are a little pricey. (~$400 or $500 if I remember correctly).

Really,the main thing is to back off the distortion,and use different tones for each track.

[Villy]

I'm kind of getting there but the whole thing sounds like it needs to 'gel' a bit more.

Just a quick note.
Gel, blend = reverb :>
Thats the tool you use to glue parts together :>

[sboullion]

Gel, blend = reverb :>
Thats the tool you use to glue parts together :>

Right on.Especially when You go direct.