KVR Audio

pskirko · Post by **pskirko** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:28 pm

hi,

A while back I tried applying the Kjaerhus audio classic reverb plugin to a live-sounding sampled-drums track. However, I ran into some pretty nasty phase-cancellation in the result.

I'm guessing that the reverb'd signal was too phase-coherent with the original, thus creating cancellations.

My experiment wasn't very scientific. Once I found the problem I just switched reverbs and kept working.

However, I am curious if other people have had this problem, or this is just a case of operator error.

Thanks,
--peter

Torben · Post by **Torben** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:55 pm

My guess is that you used it in a send channel and forgot to set the mix to wet.

Torben

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:05 am

Kjaerhus Classic reverb is one of the sweetest VST reverbs available. I would be very interested in a commercial Kjaerhus reverb if it ever happened.

ALL reverbs involve multiple delays, and ALL delays cause phase shifts. ALL reverbs will cause phase effects, and ALL reverbs require careful tweaking to get the best results. Kjaerhus Classic is one of very few reverbs that can sound smooth and convincing doing very small rooms through to very large plates. Like any reverb, you can make it sound bad if you want to.

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:08 am

Also - what was the host? Not all hosts have plugin delay compensation for all buses. But if any reverb is used 100% wet as a send, it doesn't really matter because any latency simply becomes a little more predelay - and predelay is an important part of natural sounding reverb.

griels · Post by **griels** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:12 am

Classic Reverb is my go to verb also (well, that and Pristine Space Light), always sounded pretty smooth and unintrusive to me.. Never had any phase problems with it.. I suspect Torben might be onto something?

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:16 pm

Agreed... the Classic Reverb is great!

Recently I have been using it as my only VST reverb in Live 5 and Adobe Audition (having got rid of Ambience, Glaceverb, etc... and having tested and rejected all the commercially available reverb VSTs!!). Ableton's own reverb plus Kjaerhus Classic was a perfect pair (and Audition's reverbs are stunning).

Having said that I finally also have Sonar 5 (after a long interest), which comes with four good reverbs included (Lexicon Pantheon, Cakewalk's own, the lovely Sonitus Reverb and the new Perfect Space convolution) so I'm now rather spoilt for good reverbs! Not to forget Reason's RV7000, which remains probably my favourite of all, even now

But I'll still use Classic Reverb in Live (and buy a Golden Reverb if it appears)... alongside Perfect Space, which works in Ableton as a VST as well as in Sonar itself

pskirko · Post by **pskirko** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:11 am

Hi,

Thanks for the responses. I went back and tested my scenario (in Cubase SX3).

The instance of the reverb was set to 100% wet on a send bus, so the hypothesis of having some dry-wet mix in the send does not apply.

To make a long story short, one problem had to do with small rooms (under 10 m^2). After that, the sound opened up a bit and was more tolerant of varied parameter settings. My send level might have been unnecessarily high too.

In general, I've found that reverb'ing the snare is a bit of a fine art. Its coloration definitely changes with most reverbs, so finding what you want takes some patience. I think it's a newbie experience.

Anyways, thanks again. I look forward to experimenting with the reverb more in the future!

The Chase · Post by **The Chase** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:15 am

I've never run into this. Also, welcome to KVR, mate!

BTW has anyone noticed that kjaerhus classic reverb really shines on strings? It sounds good all around but imo sounds the best on orchestral stuff.

griels · Post by **griels** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:31 am

Chase wrote: BTW has anyone noticed that kjaerhus classic reverb really shines on strings? It sounds good all around but imo sounds the best on orchestral stuff.

Yes indeed! Sounds very nice on VSL Opus

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:15 am

Small rooms are hard for most reverbs. I think Classic reverb does these really well. Bear in mind that you can turn the Early Reflections right off if you need to. Ultimately - for realistic drum sounds you really need room mic's.

pskirko · Post by **pskirko** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:35 am

greendoor wrote:Small rooms are hard for most reverbs. I think Classic reverb does these really well. Bear in mind that you can turn the Early Reflections right off if you need to. Ultimately - for realistic drum sounds you really need room mic's.

I agree. So far I've had good luck with NI Battery 2. I think I focused mostly on the directs, overheads, and rooms. Blending on the crashes sounds especially great!

One gripe I have with NI Battery 2, though, is that many of the presets do not have objectively informative names (eg: Best of Absynth, Arocen, etc). I'd rather see: Glitch 1, Glitch 2, House 1, House 2, etc. But maybe that's a subject for another topic

The Chase · Post by **The Chase** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:37 am

call me silly, but I find that the fruity native "reeverb" has the best small room results

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:57 am

Now that's just silly

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:17 am

You might be right about the reverb... but you're still silly.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:40 am

The Fruity Reverb is indeed nice (it's a cut down version of the wonderful Sonitus one, right?) but quite different to the Classic Reverb in character... giving FL users a nice pair to choose between

phase cancellation with Kjaehus audio classic reverb