DS-404 Awesome but Confusing...???

[twormser]

First let me say that I think the DS-404 is great. Clean, easy but sounds great and best of all it is free.

However, I find the whole distinction between timbres, midi channels, multi's and patches a bit confusing. How di I get different midi channels in my sequencer to "play" different patches in one instance of my DS-404???
Basically, I want to be able have different midi channels in Cubase 5.1 on a mac to correspond to different sounds in the DS-404. The sounds will be mapped across the majority of the keyboard. I have read the manual several times but I can't get it to work. Maybe it won't. Can someone explain this clearly?


Many thanks,

Tim Wormser

[Scot Solida]

First, go to the mixer page (f4). There you will see a slider and panpot corresponding to the sixteen different patch slots in the DS404. At the top, they are numbered. This number represents the MIDI channel it is assigned to. You can change the channel by cursoring over this number. Two patches set to the same channel will respond at the same time, allowing you to stack sounds. But that's not what you want to do. You want each one to play a different sound from a different Cubase MIDI track. You need to create a "multi" with a different patch in each slot, all responding to different channels. To do that, you need to load different patches into the patch slots in the little display that is in the top middle of the DS404. USe the numbers to the left of the patch name to determine which channel you are loading into. That will do the trick. It seems quite confusing at first, but once you figure it out, it is quite simple. Make sure to use the "save patch" and "save multi" functions (click on the little "E" that appears next to the "save/load" icons next to the patch and multi names. In this way you can set up some nice multi-channeled, multi-layered patches that have my most used songwriting tools in the different patch slots.

[Muon Software Ltd]

Here's an extract from a post I wrote over on the CM forum on this very subject. You'll also find that there is a tutorial on this very subject in the brand-new issue of Computer Music magazine, which is well worth grabbing.

Cheers
Dave

In the patch window you'll see:-

01: Multi 1
01: 01: Patch 1
................

Each of those bits of text is "active" and can be clicked on. If you click where it says "Multi 1", you can type a new name for Multi patch #1. If you click where it says Patch 1, you can likewise change the name for Patch 1. The number immediately to the left of the multi name on the top line shows which Multi you are currently playing/editing. You can change this by clicking on the number indicator and dragging vertically with the mouse. There are 16 Multis in total.

A Multi is a special kind of patch that contains all the settings for the 16 seperate synthesis engines which are called Timbres. The settings relevent to a timbre are its current Patch, MIDI Channel, volume and pan.

The first number on the bottom row indicates which Timbre you are currently editing. If you click on this and drag it vertically with the mouse you'll see that the same patch, patch #1 is assigned to all 16 timbres.

The sounds supplied as 404 files on the CM CD are all single patches, not multis. A single patch contains some samples (in a keymap) and some synthesis settings. When you load one from disk, DS404 makes a new keymap, adds the samples to the pool and overwrites the current patch on the current timbre with the synthesis settings and the new keymap it just created.

If you save a 404 file using the top button, it saves it as a BANK. A bank is a dump of the whole memory of DS404, that is to say all 16 multis, all 16 keymaps, all the samples and all 16 patches. When you reload one DS404 recognises this is a bank and will overwrite everything in its entire memory with the new data.

So, step by step now:-

1. Ensure that you are editing Multi 1, timbre 1, patch 1.
2. Load a 404 file from disk (lets say Attack of the Clones)

The display will show

01: Multi 1
01: 01: AttOTClone
................

3. Change the patch to 2 by clicking and dragging on the patch indicator.

The display will now show

01: Multi 1 E
01: 02: Patch 2
................

Ignore the E for now

4. Load another 404 file from disk (CMBtchStereo) - notice how the E disappears once the patch has finished loading.

The display will now show

01: Multi 1
01: 02: Btch
................

5. Change the patch on timbre 1 back to patch 1 by clicking and dragging on the patch indicator.

The display will now show
01: Multi 1 E
01: 01: AttOTClone
................

6. Click on the E and save your changes

6. Change the patch on timbre 2 to patch 2 by first clicking and dragging on the timbre indicator.

The display will now show
01: Multi 1
02: 01: AttOTClone
................

and then clicking and dragging on the patch indicator

The display will now show
01: Multi 1 E
02: 02: Btch
................

7. Click on the E and save your changes again

8. Now play some MIDI on MIDI channel 1 and you will hear the Attack of the Clones patch. Play some MIDI on MIDI channel 2 and you will hear the CMBtchStereo patch.

If this doesn't happen, it can only possibly be for one reason - your sequencer is re-channelising your MIDI data. You can check this by looking at the 16 MIDI activity indicators in the patch window

01: Multi 1 E
02: 02: Btch
................ <--- MIDI activity indicators

When a note on is received on MIDI channel 1, the first light will glow until a note off is received. When a note on is received on MIDI channel 2 the second light will glow, and so on.

If the SECOND light isn't flashing when you are sending data on MIDI channel 2 you need to fiddle with your sequencer a bit. In Cubase, you can set the MIDI channel for a track just by changing it right there on the arrange page. In other host programs it depends, but it's usually pretty straightforward.

Now, lets save our work. Use the top save button and call this file something sensible like "MyMulti.404".

Open a new song in your sequencer, add a DS404 and load up MyMulti.404. Create a track for MIDI channel 1 and another for MIDI channel 2 on DS404. Play in some MIDI - you'll see that not only has it loaded both patches but it's also remembered the patch and MIDI channel assignments stored in Multi 1.

[twormser]

Thanks so much you guys! I totally get it now. I can now say unabashedly that the DS-404 is the greatest "free" VSTi ever.

Oh yes.

[Teksonik]

I too am in Love with the DS404.Are there any plans for third party sounds?(ohhh Squids....) I would love to see more support for the DS.Dave is there still a sample disk in the works?

Hey Scot did you check out my DS patch "Zaruthan" that's on the CM website?


http://www.computermusic.co.uk/news/news.asp

[Scot Solida]

Ooooh! That's a cool one! I got that one, yeah!

As I said in that thread with my "Muon Song", the sounds used in that are for a content disc Muon is releasing. It will be top stuff!

[play]

I have to agree, the ds 404 is the first choice when it comes to basic sampling and the filter sounds incredible. It took me quite a while to understand the interface but it's been well worth the hassle.

What I can't figure out for the life of me though is how to modulate the amp with the lfo. Surely this is possible? Otherwise it would be difficult to get a lot of classic tremolo sounds, especially vibes.... any hints on what to do?

play

[Muon Software Ltd]

Sadly it's not possible to do tremolo effects by modulating the amp with the LFO. On Electron we allowed you to modulate ENV1 output with the LFO (which would do the trick) but on DS404 this modulation option is not available.

The reason for this is that DS404 is the first Muon product to use volume smoothing for zipper-free volume and pan changes, and hooking up an audio-rate modulator like the LFO (all Muon EGs and LFOs operate at audio-rate unlike most synths out there!!) would have used up a tonne of CPU. Sorry folks!

Dave is there still a sample disk in the works?

Yes, most definately. We've been sampling ourselves silly, and the list looks like this so far:

Steinway Grand (40mb, three strike layers, each key sampled!)
Fender Rhodes (two strike layers)
Wurlitzer EP200 (two strike layers)
DX7 Electric Piano (three strike layers)
Hohner Pianet T (two strike layers)
Hohner D6 Clavinet
Hammond M102 (multisampled and split so you can use the mixer faders as DRAWBARS!)
Roland Alpha Juno 2
Roland SH101
Roland TB303
Moog Prodigy
Yamaha CS60
Prophet 600

In total, 400mb of patches so far, taken from more than 1gb of raw source waveforms and counting.

With the synths, we've sampled the raw osc waves so you can use DS404 as an advanced synthesiser

Imagine layering up a PWM wave from the Alpha Juno with a fat Sawtooth from the Prophet 600 and a set of detuned square waves from the Moog. Apply seperate filters, envelopes, LFO, vol and pan on each one and play the lot together with 32 note poly (and 13 slots still free for other patches!). The disc will hopefully ship with some exlcusive plugins on there too if all goes to plan, plus a DS404 file player called Tachyon P (the P standing for "player edition", first in a range of Tachyon sampler products from Muon).

Synth heaven for £39.99 plus shipping

Dave

[dahei]

Looking forward to that disc coming out as I find loading multi samples a bit of a pain! I think I'm perhaps doing something wrong, possibly to do with the root note information as quite often I'll load in a few samples and map them but hear nothing on playback. Perhaps they're are being pitched so low that I can't hear them?!?! I need to sit down for a weekend and just learn how to use the thing properly!

[Muon Software Ltd]

You may find the two tutorials over at the CM website useful:

http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/ds404/ds404.asp
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial ... ds4042.asp

Regards
Dave

[Teksonik]

Thanks Dave the sample disk sounds great.Count me in as a customer.Any Vocal Ooohs and Ahhhhs,Strings and such in the works? I like the idea of using the DS404 as an advanced wavesample based synth.Layer a Bottle Blow with some Strings throw in a Oooh or Ahhh and I'm in heaven.Can't wait want my credit card number now?

[Muon Software Ltd]

There's a Mellotron choir in there for sure. Thing is though, we've sampled a lot of analogue synths, no digital ones. The sort of sounds you're describing put me sort of in mind of a D50....what do people think?

Dave

[handy]

ok. you guys have convinced me to give this another try, but... why didn't the F1-F4 keys on the keyboard correspond to F1-F4 on the menus? I found the "cluster" of keys small and fiddly (why not chunkier buttons in a straight line?), so I gave up without giving it a chance. Am I missing loads of keyboard shortcuts ? I wanna LOVE it too, but the interface matters to my productivity!

[Muon Software Ltd]

Given the budget we had for the project, the number of people working on it and the amount of development time, I'm frequently amazed that DS404 even works largely as advertised

The UI is quirky, but I see it this way. Often with a piece of hardware you can memorise menu or soft-key sequences for commonly performed actions. In a similar way, DS404 will become second nature after spending some time on it. Having had quite a bit of practice these days I can build patches very, very quickly using the DS404 UI, yet find something like Halion a nightmare for making complex multisamples.

There will be upgrade paths from DS404 to Muon products in the future and we'll be able to spend more time, money and effort on the UI. We'll also be able to act on user feedback and incorporate your wishes. If you want something out of DS404 that isn't there you'll need to take the upgrade path.

Regards
Dave

[shortyedwards]

Hey all you DS404'ers -
I must say that I haven't been that interested in this newest Muon offering to date. Reason? Well, i have a good sampler in Orion Plat.

Am I missing something in not getting my DS404? This thread seems to indicate that. Thanks.

Doug