ok, so ive been a rabid user and 'fanboy' of live 4. singing its praises to anyone who would listen. ive put all the cakewalks products to rest (ive been using them since dos days) because of live. so a new version comes out and ive been waiting out the 'teething' period before upgrading. i spent some time over at the forums for the past few days and have noticed a change in the 'vibe' since the V4 days. there have been more than a few complaints about the new version and im a bit sad. i have downloaded the demo and tried it out and found nothing out of the ordinary. works as before. granted i think the demo only ran for 30 min at at time.
I know a lot of people here use it, so is there really anything to be concerned about? should i hold out a bit longer and see what transpires? I guess im looking for what has changed for better or worse....
help put my mind at ease!
Live 5....what happened?
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- KVRist
- 284 posts since 13 Jul, 2005 from Longview, WA
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- KVRAF
- 2093 posts since 19 Jun, 2003 from UTM 18 317254E 4295335N (WGS84/NAD83)
You need to stop worrying about what people on forums say....
I've been a Live user since 2 and 5 works great. What are you seeing that's bothering you?
I've been a Live user since 2 and 5 works great. What are you seeing that's bothering you?
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
There are/have been some problems with it - most seem to have been sorted out or are in the process of.
I think what bothered a few people/users is that the abes changed/modified certain basic functions without explicitly explaining the changes to people, for instance do a search on the abes forum for 'f**king orange dot' or more recently for people complaining about clips not looping in sync when a project is stopped & restarted, due to the clips starting from their position relative to where they stopped, rather from their actual starting positions - this was changed recently & the reason the abes gave was somewhat bizarre, as they said it hadn't been announced this was changed as they considered the original behaviout to be flawed or 'broken' & were just fixing it - unfortunately this 'fix' borked things for the majority of users.
Another example would be if you searched for threads where users complained that midi timing was off, a significant difference exhibited between how a clip sounded whilst one played it real time with monitoring on (so one could hear oneself play) & how it then sounded whilst played back with the rest of ones track.
The problem in this case was that it took a long time explaining to the abes why this behaviour was not wanted, i.e. we wanted how it sounded/the timing when recored in & monitored in & when played back to be the same - for what seem obvious reasons.
I'd say that this is behaviour uncharacteristic of the abes for the most part & that they are very responsive to user complaints, bug reports & suggestions - but that a significant proportion of the user base have been a bit shaken & maybe lost some of their faith & trust in the abes.
I still like live, I 'like it a lot' (to quote Jim Carrey), but have yet to upgrade to 5.03 as I build tunes up by layering clips & experimenting with them in a quite freeform manner & the new clip 'behaviour' would seriously mess my head up, maybe I should give it a whirl - but i'll likely wait until 5.2 is released & see how that goes.
I think what bothered a few people/users is that the abes changed/modified certain basic functions without explicitly explaining the changes to people, for instance do a search on the abes forum for 'f**king orange dot' or more recently for people complaining about clips not looping in sync when a project is stopped & restarted, due to the clips starting from their position relative to where they stopped, rather from their actual starting positions - this was changed recently & the reason the abes gave was somewhat bizarre, as they said it hadn't been announced this was changed as they considered the original behaviout to be flawed or 'broken' & were just fixing it - unfortunately this 'fix' borked things for the majority of users.
Another example would be if you searched for threads where users complained that midi timing was off, a significant difference exhibited between how a clip sounded whilst one played it real time with monitoring on (so one could hear oneself play) & how it then sounded whilst played back with the rest of ones track.
The problem in this case was that it took a long time explaining to the abes why this behaviour was not wanted, i.e. we wanted how it sounded/the timing when recored in & monitored in & when played back to be the same - for what seem obvious reasons.
I'd say that this is behaviour uncharacteristic of the abes for the most part & that they are very responsive to user complaints, bug reports & suggestions - but that a significant proportion of the user base have been a bit shaken & maybe lost some of their faith & trust in the abes.
I still like live, I 'like it a lot' (to quote Jim Carrey), but have yet to upgrade to 5.03 as I build tunes up by layering clips & experimenting with them in a quite freeform manner & the new clip 'behaviour' would seriously mess my head up, maybe I should give it a whirl - but i'll likely wait until 5.2 is released & see how that goes.
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- KVRAF
- 2744 posts since 5 Dec, 2003 from Harlan's World
1) The Ableton forum is the most depressing place ever - I never go there unless I want to vent frustation
2) I must be lucky - I went straight for the 5 upgrade last summer and never had (Serious) problems with it. A few crashes but never in a serious situation. I consider it to be quite solid.
2) I must be lucky - I went straight for the 5 upgrade last summer and never had (Serious) problems with it. A few crashes but never in a serious situation. I consider it to be quite solid.
My Soundcloud Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 284 posts since 13 Jul, 2005 from Longview, WA
you are quite right!! 
like i said, the demo version of v5 worked like a charm, so im certain im making a deal out of nothing.....
whoops, i missed the other posts....
yes, D, those posts are exactly what threw me. very strange since, IMHO, they had it right all along. ive noticed they listened to the users and made some fixes, which is great.
i was concerned because it seemed like they changed things at the very basic level that threw everyone off. i dont want to load up my projects and then go "what the...?' when they dont play back right. even cakewalk has kept the 'core' of their program the same over the years. if i loaded tracks, i just had to hit play and eveything work likes before, no 'dots' to worry about or figuring out why some tracks start on '1' and others on '3'.
like i said, the demo version of v5 worked like a charm, so im certain im making a deal out of nothing.....
whoops, i missed the other posts....
yes, D, those posts are exactly what threw me. very strange since, IMHO, they had it right all along. ive noticed they listened to the users and made some fixes, which is great.
i was concerned because it seemed like they changed things at the very basic level that threw everyone off. i dont want to load up my projects and then go "what the...?' when they dont play back right. even cakewalk has kept the 'core' of their program the same over the years. if i loaded tracks, i just had to hit play and eveything work likes before, no 'dots' to worry about or figuring out why some tracks start on '1' and others on '3'.
Last edited by dopet on Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2093 posts since 19 Jun, 2003 from UTM 18 317254E 4295335N (WGS84/NAD83)
I don't have any problems with MIDI sync. When I record audio, I have to go back and move the clip playback start backwards slightly to match the offset - which I assume is due to my incorrect audio buffer settings - because I don't have the same issue in my other host (Digital Performer), but it's hardly an issue because I don't use live for main audio tracking much.
I think I know what you mean about the relative start positions - but frankly I see that the way it works now is fine. It may be my limited approach, but it didn't bork me in any way at all - and I have a lot of legacy Live 2-4 files which I brought into 5 and keep improving.
Besides, if there is one thing I could say to an earlier Live user that would entice them to 5, it's probably Beat Repeat. What an easy way to get endless entertainment from your tracks.
I think I know what you mean about the relative start positions - but frankly I see that the way it works now is fine. It may be my limited approach, but it didn't bork me in any way at all - and I have a lot of legacy Live 2-4 files which I brought into 5 and keep improving.
Besides, if there is one thing I could say to an earlier Live user that would entice them to 5, it's probably Beat Repeat. What an easy way to get endless entertainment from your tracks.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 284 posts since 13 Jul, 2005 from Longview, WA
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Pandamonium Records Pandamonium Records https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8179
- KVRer
- 26 posts since 23 Jul, 2003 from Australia
One of Live 5 main new advertised features (Freeze) didnt even work until after a few revisions, the frozen files would be randomly deleted. It's like they got a bunch of people they werent programers to beta test it for them or something, wait, that's exactly what they did! No wonder it was released like a buggy Alpha version, you get what you pay for with beta testers!
BTW, The later revisions are a better and more stable.
It is a shame to see Ableton go down this path.
BTW, The later revisions are a better and more stable.
It is a shame to see Ableton go down this path.
Visit Pandamonium Records homepage at http://www.pandamonium.com.au
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- KVRAF
- 2093 posts since 19 Jun, 2003 from UTM 18 317254E 4295335N (WGS84/NAD83)
Who gets programmers to beta test software?
Public Betas are pretty common - the best way to find out what really works or not is to put it in the hands of users who put it through its paces in real world situations.
I know Alpha - and no version of Live I ever used was anywhere close.
PS: There's only been two revisions of 5 that I know of. Freeze worked for me on 5.0.0, but I don't use it much so maybe it was buggy in certain situations.
Public Betas are pretty common - the best way to find out what really works or not is to put it in the hands of users who put it through its paces in real world situations.
I know Alpha - and no version of Live I ever used was anywhere close.
PS: There's only been two revisions of 5 that I know of. Freeze worked for me on 5.0.0, but I don't use it much so maybe it was buggy in certain situations.
Last edited by You™ on Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 227 posts since 27 May, 2004
Sampletank 2 wont work in live 5 anymore in multitimbral use without locking up after a while. I rewire ST2 using Cakewalk P5v2 to get around this.
However, Live 5 Mackie support is awesome. I'm afraid I can't look back to Live 4 because of this...
However, Live 5 Mackie support is awesome. I'm afraid I can't look back to Live 4 because of this...
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- KVRist
- 495 posts since 5 Sep, 2002 from Boston, Mass
re: the beta testing. they were rushing the release of live5 to sync with some trade show (musikmesse maybe?) and that why there was much kvetching when the 5.0.1 release came out.
If it sounds good it is good.
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- KVRist
- 159 posts since 9 Apr, 2004
Live 5 is shitty. I have constant problems with it. For some reason I continue to use it. 
My computer kicks ass, too. I donno. Alot of the major issues I had with Live 4 are still here in 5 a year and half later. What's up, Ableton? You already have our money so you don't care if we use your software? Take some pride in your work for god sakes.
Oh well.
My computer kicks ass, too. I donno. Alot of the major issues I had with Live 4 are still here in 5 a year and half later. What's up, Ableton? You already have our money so you don't care if we use your software? Take some pride in your work for god sakes.
Oh well.
hi
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- KVRAF
- 2744 posts since 5 Dec, 2003 from Harlan's World
I don't understand the "Live 5 is shitty" sentiment. It works perfectly here. What are your "constant problems"?
My Soundcloud Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky
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- KVRist
- 413 posts since 17 Mar, 2005 from Cumbria, England
I jumped into Live at 5.02 from Tracktion. I have to say I am very pleased with it.
But, then I go and visit the Ableton forum and start thinking that I should be looking for a new host. Its partially the Abe's fault, they have this forum that is titled 'bugs and problems' so its always full of folk with problems. Doh!
Perhaps they should be more like the Props and keep the support limited to e-mails only. Reason has bugs but most of us don't know what they are so we use it happily in ignorance until one jumps out on us and bites in the arse.
Even so, Live does indeed have some problems and it needs to improve certain things before it becomes the 'complete audio solution' as it likes to say.
My top two grumbles are:
No PDC for rewired inputs. So no chance of using a rewired Reason to create beats.
No working track delay function for rewired inputs.
One other minor grumble is that you can't hide unused audio tracks in the arrange window. So even temporarily unwanted takes always appear to be streaming from the harddrive even if you can't hear them.
Tony
But, then I go and visit the Ableton forum and start thinking that I should be looking for a new host. Its partially the Abe's fault, they have this forum that is titled 'bugs and problems' so its always full of folk with problems. Doh!
Perhaps they should be more like the Props and keep the support limited to e-mails only. Reason has bugs but most of us don't know what they are so we use it happily in ignorance until one jumps out on us and bites in the arse.
Even so, Live does indeed have some problems and it needs to improve certain things before it becomes the 'complete audio solution' as it likes to say.
My top two grumbles are:
No PDC for rewired inputs. So no chance of using a rewired Reason to create beats.
No working track delay function for rewired inputs.
One other minor grumble is that you can't hide unused audio tracks in the arrange window. So even temporarily unwanted takes always appear to be streaming from the harddrive even if you can't hear them.
Tony
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- KVRian
- 665 posts since 7 Jan, 2003 from somewhere between 50 and 60Hz
I have Live5 too and have found it runs without issues
I think it's best to keep in mind that Live is now hugely popular, so there are more users and therefore more apparent bugs and problems. I bet Cubase and other popular hosts are no different. To me, it seems pretty stable... haven't had a crash yet. And it works fine for me, but I don't use rewire. But then again, from what I've heard on different forums, rewire is never a smooth process no matter what host you use
I think it's best to keep in mind that Live is now hugely popular, so there are more users and therefore more apparent bugs and problems. I bet Cubase and other popular hosts are no different. To me, it seems pretty stable... haven't had a crash yet. And it works fine for me, but I don't use rewire. But then again, from what I've heard on different forums, rewire is never a smooth process no matter what host you use