KVR Audio

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:31 pm

Hi everyone,

as of now there isn't any comparison between higher end Lexicon hardware and the new IK Multimedia availible on the net I thought we'd rather do it ourselves. So, I've got a .wav file with 3 different samples in it.

If someone who owns the CSR-1 could send
- the Shakuhachi through a large plate
- put the drumloop into a small room/hall/studio type of environment
- and the impulse spike into a medium/large hall (in this case with randomization switched off)

as well as mix the dry/wet levels at 50/50 and post screenshots (or email them to me) of their settings, I'll set my Lex 300 to the same settings, run the samples trough and post everything here again so people can compare. Wouldn't that be great?

The dry file can be found here: http://www.scherer.de/Download/CSR300_DRY.wav

Thank you very much in advance!

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:43 pm

I'd rather you tune either the CSR or lexicon by ear. Setting same values does nothing good. Maybe you provide some examples run trough the lexicon 300 and somebody tries to emulate that example as well as they can with their CSR? Wouldn't this be more of a traditional way to compare?

Cheers!
bManic

dr. orange · Post by **dr. orange** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:18 am

I really can't understand people spending that much money on an average quality reverb like the CSR if they could have the best Lexicons etc. just for fu*kin FREE!
download some IRs and SIR and you'll be happy for decades

dr. orange · Post by **dr. orange** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:23 am

there are people out there IRing every preset of their h/w reverb unit for you!

lex_strooder · Post by **lex_strooder** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:24 am

IRs of lexicon are not the same as the real deal... think pitch shift...

dr. orange · Post by **dr. orange** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:25 am

lex_strooder wrote:IRs of lexicon are not the same as the real deal... think pitch shift...

please explain it to me, I don't understand what you mean

lex_strooder · Post by **lex_strooder** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:27 am

lexicon use pitch shift/mod in their reverbs, IR cant reproduce that

EDIT: but IRs come very very close...

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:39 am

dr. orange, let me guess, you have never used a higher end lexicon in the context of a mix? Impulse reverbs are static, the real deal isn't. A big part of the lexicon "magic" sound is the modulation that is going on. This might be the single most important thing that keeps them blending in a mix so well (but lately I've been exploring the thought of dynamic mid/side equalisation that might be going on to alter the reverb tail). All this is impossible to capture in a static impulse.

Cheers!
bManic

Sickle · Post by **Sickle** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:46 am

bmanic wrote:All this is impossible to capture in a static impulse.

Oh, but HEY! They're all over the internet and they're FREE!@!

Don't let little details like REALITY piss in someone else's cereal bowl..

lex_strooder · Post by **lex_strooder** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:48 am

bmanic wrote:... but lately I've been exploring the thought of dynamic mid/side equalisation that might be going on to alter the reverb tail ...

using the old trick to overdrive/burn the sides (of mid/side) can please some ears but it looks like you are on to something else ?

...

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:55 am

So does anybody own CSR?

Sickle · Post by **Sickle** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:06 am

bduffy wrote:So does anybody own CSR?

I do, but it's not here yet; it was shipped this afternoon.

dr. orange · Post by **dr. orange** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:49 am

bmanic wrote:dr. orange, let me guess, you have never used a higher end lexicon in the context of a mix? Impulse reverbs are static, the real deal isn't. A big part of the lexicon "magic" sound is the modulation that is going on. This might be the single most important thing that keeps them blending in a mix so well (but lately I've been exploring the thought of dynamic mid/side equalisation that might be going on to alter the reverb tail). All this is impossible to capture in a static impulse.

Cheers!
bManic

no I haven't because I can't afford it... and if I could I think I would buy another synthesizer instead of a reverb unit.
what are those incredible modulation thingies that justifie to spend that much money on a h/w unit than using IRs for free? pitchshifting, well, I can't imagine a situation where you really would use that in a mix. EQ modulation? just modulate an EQ afther the IR verb... chorus? the same...
However, I have downloaded about 1GB of IRs, and unfortunately, they lack in huge huge verb rails what I really like...

Boy, I got a Lexicon Reverb for fu*kin free!!

Well, actually more than five Lexicons and verious other brands and real spaces

dr. orange · Post by **dr. orange** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:50 am

Sickle wrote:
bduffy wrote:So does anybody own CSR?
I do, but it's not here yet; it was shipped this afternoon.

do you mind doing some IRs?

There are many ppl who would safe much money that way

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:04 am

dr. orange: it's true that IR's have limited ability to capture reverb. The lack of dynamism makes them sound a bit "flatter" than the real hardware. It's my guess that that is the reason why big companies don't freak out that the IR's of their equipment have become public domain, since they know the real hardware performs better.

The dynamic aspects of Lexicon and probably TC reverbs as well contribute to their quality. They are subtle, but the ear picks up the effect they have on the sound and it is perceived as pleasing.

CSR-1 - Lexicon300 - Comparison