KVR Audio

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:05 am

Hi!

Again I need your help. I'm messing around with surround a bit, so far it's funny as hell,but one thing that's really bugging me in Cubase SX is that I don't have proper meters. The so called "VU" is a PMM and I can mix only from experience (which can shoot way over the goal in worst case).

I'd really prefer a metering tool that's capable of surround (5.1) and the K-System. A pity that Inspector XL is only Stereo (so far) and I know that Wavelab is still 3-4dB off with their VU (Wavelab 4 and 5) to be suitable for the K-System.

If somebody has any idea how to get a good "native" (VST/DX) metering tool, I'm open ears.

juha_p · Post by **juha_p** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:18 am

Pinguin has one tool that may fit into your demands, but it seem to be standalone? http://www.masterpinguin.de/neu/files/c ... tware.html

Juha

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:54 pm

Yeah it is standalone, but I need something as VSTi form as I don't have Wavelab 5 (which meter is off and not suitable for the K-System) or 6 (too expensive atm) yet. And for Pinguin you need a seperate PC or very difficult routing.

Barbarossa · Post by **Barbarossa** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:00 pm

Barbarossa · Post by **Barbarossa** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:05 pm

I'd recommend the Waves SurroundTools in conjunction with PAZ.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:35 pm

PAZ is also standalone, and not VST if I can still remember. And the waves limiter lacks a RMS meter. Not to mention that the surround tools are way overpriced IMO.

Looks like I have no luck then. Or I simply use the wrong host.

loophead · Post by **loophead** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:00 pm

A surround alternative would be nice, but whats the problem with instantiating three inspectors for the six channels (or two if you are in quad) ?

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:48 pm

Hm... never thought of that actually... However there're a couple of probs going on:

1) I don't know if routing in the master slot is possible (it sure isn't for Wavelab 5, just tested that with the demo)

2) If the routing is possible, I sure have an RMS meter suitable for the K-System, but
2a) It only works for stereo bussed, and not the comlplete surround mix (therefore the RMS and correlation isn't there)
2b) the LFE and the Center is "together", which makes it impossible to meter that well in terms of LCR levels.

So yeah... the solutions are really limited. Surround seems like an interesting idea for orchestra and experimental soundtracks, but the stuff is way overpriced and you're stuck with the most basic tools. Not that great if I may add.

On the other hand. Can somebody recommend me (good to awesome) tutorials regarding producing in surround? If I can still remember, the LFE mustn't exceed a certain level, so mustn't the Center. Also it'd be interesting to know which settings to use in terms of AC3 encoding, as there're tons of profiles available, settings for voice atenuation, auto lowering, etc.

Also... if somebody has some info about cheap "Pro Logic II" solutions (encoder), I'm open ears on that, too. Because on a normal audio CD, I can't use surround. But I have no idea in terms of SACD (how to encode, etc) and ProLogic (here the system is clear, I just need an encoder).

Thanks again

Barbarossa · Post by **Barbarossa** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:55 pm

Compyfox wrote:PAZ is also standalone, and not VST if I can still remember.

PAZ is VST.

And the waves limiter lacks a RMS meter.

You could use PAZ instead.

Not to mention that the surround tools are way overpriced IMO.

Depends on the results.
I don't know anything better for discrete surround mixing.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:01 pm

Can you gimme a link to the PAZ VST plugin? Cause the last time I was on the page (this afternoon), I didn't find anything about it, only that it works with a "waves wrapper", which isn't what I'm looking for.

Unless you mean "Waves PAZ", and that is stereo only. PAS Dolby Meter "might" be suitable, but it's standalone. Names and their similarities.

EDIT:
Add-On to the stuff I'm looking in my previous post...
Somebody knows of Reverbs or Tools where you have a "stereo file" and you can mix it up to surround? I remember a couple of reverbs who can do this (you setup 6 virtual speakers in a room, load the wave, press enter... done), however I lost track of them.

WaveArts comes close to what I'm looking for, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. And the french "free Surround Plugins" aren't what I'm looking for either (not to mention that they're totally confusing, sorry).

juha_p · Post by **juha_p** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:36 pm

SIR (Impulse Response Processor) is one that comes into mind, but ... maybe stereo only. http://www.knufinke.de/sir/index_en.html

Voxengo has also some products but I do not know them. http://www.voxengo.com

WizooVerb W5.

Juha

Barbarossa · Post by **Barbarossa** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:38 pm

Yes, i mean the Waves PAZ.
Some surround adresses:
www.surroundassociates.com
www.surroundpro.com
www.5dot1.com
mixonline.com/ar/audio_surround_location
www.dolby.com
http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ulti ... &submit=Go

WMA:
msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/wma9_multichannel.asp

For an automatic surround upmix with surprisingly good results (2 -> 5.1) i'd recommend the CircleSurroundII VST plugin from SRS labs (but it's not cheap).
It is also very good for 2 channel downmixes.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:17 pm

Hm... that CircleSurround II sure looks interesting as it's not only a downmixer, but also an encoder that works the same as "ProLogic II"! I just wrote them about the price.

Definitly more interesting than the Steinberg Dolby Digital pack, where not even a demo is existing and a friend of mine had only problems with it with SX3 (aka, it never worked - and it has PACE).

Thanks for the hint.

acousmod · Post by **acousmod** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:48 pm

Hi,

Some lists of multichannel plugins :
"surround" : http://multiphonie.free.fr/plugins1.htm
reverbs : http://multiphonie.free.fr/plugins2.htm
FX : http://multiphonie.free.fr/plugins3.htm

Only in French, sorry

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:30 pm

Ah... the creator of the plugins himself. Nice work on the plugins. However... your plugs are still a bit confusing to mein terms of surround panning. Especially the 12+ plugins.

But thanks for the links from your link collection.

Surround Metering Tool (VST or DX) available?