Hi all,
Any recommendations for an acoustic (nylon) guitar library for Kontakt or Halion? I'm thinking like something similar to Prominy's LPC (in terms of size, articulations etc.) but for acoustic guitar?
So far, the best I could find is YT's pure guitar or VSL Horizon Concert Guitar. But both are in Giga format and I guess the conversion wouldn't be perfect. I also tried RealGuitar and didn't really like it.
Thanks
Recommendations for acoustic guitar
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- KVRist
- 256 posts since 11 Dec, 2005
Why not try something like RealGuitar... It's the best out there in term of accoustic in my opinion. I own both LPC & RealGuitar v.2. Unless you really want to load it within Kontakt or Halion...
Kenny.
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*** Edit... Just notice that you said you don't like RealGuitar... I don't know what you don't like about it though...
Kenny.
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*** Edit... Just notice that you said you don't like RealGuitar... I don't know what you don't like about it though...
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- KVRAF
- 3476 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from NE Ohio, USA
If you don't mind a dedicated player (although EXSC can do something about conversions), check out ManyGuitar.
Doug
Doug
Logic is a pretty flower that smells bad - Spock, in "I, Mudd"
For a good time click http://www.belindabedekovic.com/video_fl_en.htm
For a good time click http://www.belindabedekovic.com/video_fl_en.htm
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- KVRist
- 180 posts since 19 Oct, 2005
I have the Pro samples guitar and bass sample cd for Halion. It contains samples from Quantum Leaps Guitar and Bass. It has very few samples and is $40, but they are quite good. I also have Global Guitars which is great by Inertia Pro. It was only $20. They also have other fantastic libraries available on Ebay. You'll have to check regularly because Inertia Pro's libraries are'nt always available. You can also get the Pure Guitar for $40 in Halion/Akai format from www.soundsonline.com (put pro samples in the search bar and you'll find it at the end of the list. I think it is volume 50) One more suggestion is Sonic Implants (http://sonicimplants.com). They have acoustic guitar samples you can buy/download for around $20 which has had good reviews. However, with any of these libraries there is still more work to be done. Some of the samples contain frets, picks etc. in one patch, but for the most part the various nuances of guitar sounds are separated in different folders. This means you'll have to utilize your samplers' alternate etc. functions to create your own realistic guitar samples. I recommend getting the Halion 3 Unleashed Tutorial available at www.auxbuss.com to get the most out of your Halion sampler to achieve the best results. As far as format import issues I honestly always use Akai in Halion. It's simple and works fine. Hope this helps.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 18 posts since 15 Jul, 2005
Well, I tried the 2L demo. Unfortunately, this only includes the steel string samples - I'm really interested in nylon guitars. I actually liked the playability / expressiveness that could be achieved, I just didn't like the sound of it. Always sounded very "thin". I should mention that I'm looking for a sound that can be used as the lead instrument in a mix, not just some background strumming.xuanvu wrote:Why not try something like RealGuitar... It's the best out there in term of accoustic in my opinion. I own both LPC & RealGuitar v.2. Unless you really want to load it within Kontakt or Halion...
Kenny.
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*** Edit... Just notice that you said you don't like RealGuitar... I don't know what you don't like about it though...
Yeah, I see a lot of positive comments about Manyguitars. The problem I have with it is that apparently, it only includes a single acoustic nylon guitar patch of which I didn't see / hear any demos yet. Btw, are you suggesting that EXSC would do a better job in converting Giga to K2 instead of just importing it into Kontakt?If you don't mind a dedicated player (although EXSC can do something about conversions), check out ManyGuitar.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. Although it appears none of them comes close to the size, complexity (and quality?) of LPC (most probably because it doesn't exist?), I'll have a good look at what you recommended.
On another note ... what do you guys use to process (FX etc.) acoustic "lead" guitars? Still dreaming of that "Acoustic Alchemy" style sound but didn't get anywhere near it yet.
Thanks
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
If you want to use it as a lead instrument, hire a guitar player. And yes, that's meant serious. Anything else will be detectable as fake by anybody ever carefully listening to a guitar player.
As far as sample libraries go, I have been impressed by some Yellow Tools demos I heard. And that's quite a while ago, so most likely they're even improved by now.
As far as sample libraries go, I have been impressed by some Yellow Tools demos I heard. And that's quite a while ago, so most likely they're even improved by now.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 18 posts since 15 Jul, 2005
To the last 2 posters ... sorry, no offense ... but what would you suggest if I was looking for string orchestra samples that come as close as possible to the real deal? Hire the LSO? Or play it myself?
I make music just for fun, nothing commercial. Hiring a guitar player, or asking a friend to do it kind of defeats the idea of MAKING music myself, doesn't it? I am well aware that samples will not replace the real thing. So what? I still can try to get as close as possible with the skills (as a drummer / keyboarder) I have, no? There might even come a time when I go out, buy a guitar and learn how to play it. Right now, I'll stick to the samples, thank you.
So, my question still is: To everyone using RealGuitar, YT Pure Guitars or any other SAMPLED acoustic guitar: Who uses it as a lead instrument and what kind of processing do you use?
Thanks
I make music just for fun, nothing commercial. Hiring a guitar player, or asking a friend to do it kind of defeats the idea of MAKING music myself, doesn't it? I am well aware that samples will not replace the real thing. So what? I still can try to get as close as possible with the skills (as a drummer / keyboarder) I have, no? There might even come a time when I go out, buy a guitar and learn how to play it. Right now, I'll stick to the samples, thank you.
So, my question still is: To everyone using RealGuitar, YT Pure Guitars or any other SAMPLED acoustic guitar: Who uses it as a lead instrument and what kind of processing do you use?
Thanks
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- KVRAF
- 3345 posts since 8 Nov, 2003 from Amsterdam
I bought a guitar
I have both ManyStation (lots of guitars), and ManyGuitar (only guitars). AFAIK they share the same sample format, just different players with different presets etc (and different samples of course).
I use them both as lead sounds, and as backing sounds, and also as a more solid sound to add to my own guitar playing (I never learnt to play as quantized as software can ).
Processing: I'm not a specialist on that, I find that ManyGuitar and ManyStations presets are very good, and include different types of processing (e.g. chorus/reverb, overdrive/distortion).
btw. did you checkout the acoustic (nylon) guitar in Plugsound Free? It gets very good reviews, but I don't use it because it's free.
Another option, but not sample-based, is Revitar 2, which sounds very very good as well.
I have both ManyStation (lots of guitars), and ManyGuitar (only guitars). AFAIK they share the same sample format, just different players with different presets etc (and different samples of course).
I use them both as lead sounds, and as backing sounds, and also as a more solid sound to add to my own guitar playing (I never learnt to play as quantized as software can
).Processing: I'm not a specialist on that, I find that ManyGuitar and ManyStations presets are very good, and include different types of processing (e.g. chorus/reverb, overdrive/distortion).
btw. did you checkout the acoustic (nylon) guitar in Plugsound Free? It gets very good reviews, but I don't use it because it's free
.Another option, but not sample-based, is Revitar 2, which sounds very very good as well.
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Of course not...acctis wrote:To the last 2 posters ... sorry, no offense ... but what would you suggest if I was looking for string orchestra samples that come as close as possible to the real deal? Hire the LSO? Or play it myself?
But asking a friend (or an online collaboration mate) could even add to the fun, no?I make music just for fun, nothing commercial. Hiring a guitar player, or asking a friend to do it kind of defeats the idea of MAKING music myself, doesn't it?
Seriously, in case I need anything that could be done by a real musician, I'll allways go that route first.
Of course, I do use sampled things as well, but whenever I can, I try to replace them with the real deal in the end.
And it's not as if reasonable guitar players willing to collaborate would be as tough to find (or hire for free) as a real orchestra...
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRist
- 46 posts since 2 Sep, 2005 from Calgary, Canada
acctis, I think that no matter which format you want to work in, if you want a really convincing track, you just have to get your hands dirty and do some pretty low level midi editing.
This is especially true on an acoustic track, where adding more processing later just makes it sound more 'processed'. With a decent set of <insert format> samples you should be able to make a good sounding dry track by messing with string to string delays, and the usual midi controls (velocity, attack and release times, and brightness). Season to taste, and your done.
I'm planning on a large nylon sample set in at least 24bit sf2, .rfl, and Kontakt or Giga, but it'll be a few months at the earliest.
A few guys have suggested Manytone. Why not post on Manytone's forum (on the KVR main page) and ask a few questions?
good luck,
Keith
This is especially true on an acoustic track, where adding more processing later just makes it sound more 'processed'. With a decent set of <insert format> samples you should be able to make a good sounding dry track by messing with string to string delays, and the usual midi controls (velocity, attack and release times, and brightness). Season to taste, and your done.
I'm planning on a large nylon sample set in at least 24bit sf2, .rfl, and Kontakt or Giga, but it'll be a few months at the earliest.
A few guys have suggested Manytone. Why not post on Manytone's forum (on the KVR main page) and ask a few questions?
good luck,
Keith
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- KVRAF
- 3345 posts since 8 Nov, 2003 from Amsterdam
A wise guy once said: You get more realistic sound using synths with a much expression, than by using (expensive) samples of real instruments with no expression.
btw this is one of the reasons SaxLab was not a success for me: It's a great plugin, but not all you do is send note-on and note-off messages
.
btw this is one of the reasons SaxLab was not a success for me: It's a great plugin, but not all you do is send note-on and note-off messages
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- KVRist
- 46 posts since 2 Sep, 2005 from Calgary, Canada
M'Snah, the quote sounds a bit like http://www.synful.com/. It's all about articulation, and I tend to agree, especially on bowed, and wind instruments generally, although I'm not sure I buy it totally on plucked and struck strings where the decay is so important.
I'm new here, and I assume the synful approach has been argued to death many times before, so I'll leave it at that, except to say I'm very impressed with the sophistication of it and the results based on the small amount I've heard. He's definitely on to something.
I do have a friend who did a Masters in Computer Music, and a thesis on automating expressive controls. Whenever I've talked to him about parsing a midi file and automatically making adjustments based on certain note combinations etc., he hasn't been very encouraging, and generally seems to think that chasing 'plug 'n play' midi is waste of time that might otherwise be spent musically. (He's also a good classical pianist and tends to be a bit on the picky side.) Maybe I can get him to post sometime about it.
With my extremely limited knowledge on that subject, I can only offer that the use of random variables to provide some kind of pseudo-expression to a track doesn't make much sense to me, although I have resorted to it from time to time, just on velocities in short passages. It's certainly no way to get the kinds of articulation that evoke any sense of feeling.
I've been bashing on guitars for 40 odd years, and I don't think there's much in my playing that could be called random. Everything gets played a certain way for a reason (or 6), however emotional, illogical, physical, or musical that reason may be.
I think we're agreed
Having said all that, I do think it will be very interesting to see where Finale and Sibelius end up in the next five years or so. Perhaps as the 'human playback' stuff evolves it will offer a really well controlled method of efficiently producing a truly expressive midi file that's good enough for solo guitar or piano. Some might argue they're there already.
Keith
I'm new here, and I assume the synful approach has been argued to death many times before, so I'll leave it at that, except to say I'm very impressed with the sophistication of it and the results based on the small amount I've heard. He's definitely on to something.
I do have a friend who did a Masters in Computer Music, and a thesis on automating expressive controls. Whenever I've talked to him about parsing a midi file and automatically making adjustments based on certain note combinations etc., he hasn't been very encouraging, and generally seems to think that chasing 'plug 'n play' midi is waste of time that might otherwise be spent musically. (He's also a good classical pianist and tends to be a bit on the picky side.) Maybe I can get him to post sometime about it.
With my extremely limited knowledge on that subject, I can only offer that the use of random variables to provide some kind of pseudo-expression to a track doesn't make much sense to me, although I have resorted to it from time to time, just on velocities in short passages. It's certainly no way to get the kinds of articulation that evoke any sense of feeling.
I've been bashing on guitars for 40 odd years, and I don't think there's much in my playing that could be called random. Everything gets played a certain way for a reason (or 6), however emotional, illogical, physical, or musical that reason may be.
I think we're agreed
Having said all that, I do think it will be very interesting to see where Finale and Sibelius end up in the next five years or so. Perhaps as the 'human playback' stuff evolves it will offer a really well controlled method of efficiently producing a truly expressive midi file that's good enough for solo guitar or piano. Some might argue they're there already.
Keith