KVR Audio

Karmacomposer · Post by **Karmacomposer** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:12 pm

Before I go spending $200 on Vsampler3, does Extreme Sample Converter create multi-bank, multi-instrument SF2 files? I know it can CONVERT to a soundfont, but how do I take multiple soundfonts and merge them into 1 SF2 with banks and instruments? Also, how does one take wave files and create a multi-bank/multi-instrument SF2 in ESC.

This is super simple to do in Vsampler 3, but I already own ESC. With no Extreme Sample Converter manual, help file or help section on their website, questions like these are IMPOSSIBLE to get answers to on your own.

Thank you for your help!

Mike

nutsadamus · Post by **nutsadamus** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:30 pm

No way to add instruments to an existing bank afaik using ESC and no way to convert wav to sf2 either. Never tried doing that stuff in vsampler, but a cheaper alternative is Awave, which i find invaluable for editing sf2 banks/instruments. You can have 2 instances of Awave open at the same time with 2 different banks. Merging 2 banks is then as easy as dragging and dropping from one to the other. Or, have a 3rd window open and pick and choose which instruments you want to use in a new bank.

The reason I own Awave and ESC is once the bank is constructed in Awave, I like to do some of the tweaking (especially loop point editing) in ESC. Awave costs $140, but they have a 30 day demo you can try out before shelling out the dough.

Cheers

Jeremy_NSL · Post by **Jeremy_NSL** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:32 pm

Yes, ESC can't do wav mapping to sf2.

BUT you can get a free program called 'Soundfont Librarian' (I think, its been years...) that can add sf2s to a larger bank-style sf2.

Karmacomposer · Post by **Karmacomposer** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:37 pm

Jeremy,

Thanks, but my EMU 1820M will not natively support soundfonts, so I have to use a program that gets around this. ESC does, but only supports sf2 weakly it seems. Awave is $30 less than Vsampler 3 and Vsampler3 does a lot more of the stuff I would rather have it for. I can do almost 100% of what Awave offers and the interface looks so bland and unfriendly - so Visual Basic looking (lol - I am a VB6 programmer).

Too bad about ESC. I cannot use programs like Vienna or Alive because the EMU 1820M is considered "Higher End" than your standard SB card like the audigy or extigy. Makes it hard to create soundfonts for various synths (not to mention the ones I am creating for my own up-coming products!!!)

Thanks for the advice Nutsadamus (good name). I will be picking Vsampler 3 over Awave unless someone can tell me something that Awave can do radically better than the Vsampler 3 / ESC combination.

Thanks again everyone.

Mike

blortblort · Post by **blortblort** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:41 pm

Karmacomposer wrote:...With no Extreme Sample Converter manual, help file or help section on their website, questions like these are IMPOSSIBLE to get answers to on your own.

I agree and as great and useful as ESC is, I too wish there was documentation...that said- Wlod is VERY helpful and quick to reply to any questions. Recently, did a whole volley of mail with him concerning problems I was having with the vsti converter. That's sorted and should be updated soon.
Karma- though I think that Jeremy and natsadamus answered your quesstion, when in doubt, ask Wlod

Karmacomposer · Post by **Karmacomposer** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:43 pm

Thanks blort!

Right now I am flipping the proverbial coin - Awave or VSampler 3?

Mike

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:45 pm

once ESC supports directwave programs (DWP) -- which i've asked for and been told it's possible, but that was where the requests stopped, directwave is DEAD simple to use for creating zones/layers -- more elegant than any i've tried atleast including vienna. unfortunately no support in ESC yet for DWP

does vsampler support mapping like DWP? are there others that map that way? so easy and simple.

Jeremy_NSL · Post by **Jeremy_NSL** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:01 pm

Karmacomposer wrote:Jeremy,

Thanks, but my EMU 1820M will not natively support soundfonts, so I have to use a program that gets around this. ESC does, but only supports sf2 weakly it seems. Awave is $30 less than Vsampler 3 and Vsampler3 does a lot more of the stuff I would rather have it for. I can do almost 100% of what Awave offers and the interface looks so bland and unfriendly - so Visual Basic looking (lol - I am a VB6 programmer).

Soundfont Librarian doesn't depend on your soundcard. Its not meant for mapping wavs to sf2 (like Vienna, which I believe does require a sb live or greater), but instead meant for organizing sf2s into a larger bank sf2. Or extracting smaller sf2s from a larger bank. It sounded like in your first post you were looking for such a program.

Vsampler can map wav > sf2, but IMO its very hackish and timeconsuming to do so with it - especially if you have alot of different samplesets to map!

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:08 pm

Karmacomposer · Post by **Karmacomposer** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:18 pm

AWave is just too user unfriendly for me. I just don't react very well to Visual Studio looking interfaces.

VSampler 3 just feels better to me. Maybe it's the way I like working???

Mike

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:19 pm

there is another program called 'alive' which is also good too:

http://www.soundfaction.com/alive/

Jeremy_NSL · Post by **Jeremy_NSL** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:20 pm

IMO Awave isn't much better. Creating SF2s from scratch with this program will give you a splitting headache.

Actually I've given up on making SF2s, no program does an acceptable job. I think its better to map in a different format and convert to sf2 later.

Spe3D · Post by **Spe3D** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:31 pm

Jeremy_NSL wrote:IMO Awave isn't much better. Creating SF2s from scratch with this program will give you a splitting headache.

Actually I've given up on making SF2s, no program does an acceptable job. I think its better to map in a different format and convert to sf2 later.

it's true, I have pretty much come to the same conclusion - I got Awave and exsc - I use them to make simple small fonts and conversions - but have decided to stick with apps that have inbuilt control for adding samples - yet pretty much ALL sample editors have drawbacks of some kind or another, there should be more development regarding ergonomics in the adding of samples to apps (not just how they are used by the artists within music). I think the developers forget that having a good way to add samples to the product not only opens the door for more end users to enjoy adding samples - but also makes it easier to get bigger high-end libraries to their product.

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

Jeremy_NSL · Post by **Jeremy_NSL** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:34 pm

Honestly, I've got to the point where I simply edit a template .sfz file in Notepad

Pretty low-tech but its amazing how much less buggy/hassle it is!

learjeff · Post by **learjeff** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:49 pm

Chicken Systems Constructor is another option to consider for creating your own soundfonts from samples. It's also $200, and I haven't used it so I don't know much about it.

Folks above mention that EXSC doesn't create soundfonts, but I believe it now does -- at least, according to their website:

Main Features:

HARDWARE CONVERTER (SAMPLING OF YOUR HARDWARE):

- sampling hardware instruments.
- working with ASIO and MIDI.
- possibility of using several midi channels at the same time to record more hat one instrument simultaneously.
- audio latency compensation.
- midi latency adjusting parameter (trimming to correct sample start).
- patch normalize option, you don't have to care about input gain's just start record and software automatically gain samples.
- sample normalize, each sample will be gained to possible highest volume.
- ASIO Monitoring, by clicking on mapping you can listen sounds
- with MONIT. SPLIT (split monitoring) button switched to on you and moving a splits you can hear sounds releated to its velocity.
- built-in silence detection algorithms allows you to find a correct start and end of recorded samples
- reasuming it is possible to record a samples first, send to an external audio editor for editing and then convert finally to destination format

VSTi CONVERTER:

- converting virtual synth to different formats.
- support for plugins without their own gui.
- choosing a patch or bank also possible.

If you're willing to wait for a year (maybe), I'm currently working on a program to make it a LOT easier to record samples and assemble large soundfonts. The program would assist you in the recording phase to cover the sample space well and smoothly. Also, the "layer" concept would disappear: you could have any number of velocity samples for the same note and they needn't relate to the velocities sampled for other notes. Mapping would be automatic.

But I'm still in the phase of learning how to write GUI code. I know how to do most of the algorithms already, having prototyped some of them and used them to build my jRhodes3 soundfonts.

Anyone know a good GUI programmer available for free? (My program will be free.)

Mostly I need a jump start, not someone to stay involved the whole project.

Creating Soundfonts in Extreme Sample Converter