Intonation Issues with Stringed Instruments

[Trevor Jackson]

I have a song with LOTS of different stringed instruments - bass, acoustic guitar, two electric guitars and a mandolin. None of the instruments have any inherent intonation issues and I tuned them all carefully before recording them but in the preliminary mixdown -- well, they sound like an amateur demo of a band that can't quite get in tune. They're not OUT of tune...just not in the pocket, so to speak.

I have never played around with this pitch correction stuff. Do they work for guitars and such? Which one's best?

[BertKoor]

Doesn't surprise me... The instruments can be tuned and intonated perfectly, but still sound out of tune due to how the fingers are put on the fretboard. Or the instruments are not intonated properly, so then you're basically f#cked.

In general: always try to fix problems at the root whenever possible, be it either the player or the instrument. Fix the instrument and learn how to play in tune. Place the fingers gently, so strings are not bent without purpose.

Pitch shifting by hand is too tedious. There are autotune effects ofcourse (haven't tried that myself) but that can't work if the material is polyphonic like chords.

Good luck...

[Trevor Jackson]

Is that true? There's no VST that works correcting intonation on polyphoic instruments?

[Amberience]

There aren't really any pitch correction plugins that will work on polyphonic material, and the ones that do work on monophonic material are not a good substitute for getting it right in the first place.

I would wager that your instruments are poorly intonated.

[Trevor Jackson]

Maybe it's just my ear. Maybe also it's because I have four separate instruments playing a very slow groove together.

But no, I'm sure that the instruments themselves are fine and that I tuned them (and played them) well enough. (I'm actually cranky as hell about perfect intonation so if it was a problem with the instrument itself I wouldn't be here). Rather, It's the way that the four instruments are interacting with each other.

I dunno, listen to ANY David Grisman recording and the guy is always eight cents out of tune. And with mandolin in the mix, being slightly out of tune IS what mando is all about -- being that the instument has two strings for each note. Maybe I just have to get used to it.

There aren't really any pitch correction plugins that will work on polyphonic material, and the ones that do work on monophonic material are not a good substitute for getting it right in the first place.

I would wager that your instruments are poorly intonated.

[Amberience]

Well I know that frequencies that are close together create a sort of "pulse" effect rather than a detuned effect. So even if you're not PERFECTLY in tune, single notes at least are going to be ok. When there is a difference of around 15hz then the ear will start to notice more than one tone - its called stream segregation, we did it last semester

So I'm not that sure where your problem lies. Maybe upload a portion of piece and let us hear it?

[Trevor Jackson]

Alright. I deleted the electric guitars but I'll link to tracks shortly. I have to render it.

Well I know that frequencies that are close together create a sort of "pulse" effect rather than a detuned effect. So even if you're not PERFECTLY in tune, single notes at least are going to be ok. When there is a difference of around 15hz then the ear will start to notice more than one tone - its called stream segregation, we did it last semester

So I'm not that sure where your problem lies. Maybe upload a portion of piece and let us hear it?

[Amberience]

Cool. I'll grab it in a short while and give it a listen, gonna take a shower and a quick nap because I've been up since the early hours of the morning - had to help my friend get to the airport!!

[Trevor Jackson]

Okay, sorry for the delay. The file is "Elisa KVR" and it's at:

http://www.trevorjackson.com/mp3/

It's Mandolin, Acoustic and Bass. I deleted my elecric track cause it was sounding ratty, but let me know what you think of these three. Arew they sitting well together?

Thanks!

Also, what's a good plug to tighten the bass?

Cool. I'll grab it in a short while and give it a listen, gonna take a shower and a quick nap because I've been up since the early hours of the morning - had to help my friend get to the airport!!

[Amberience]

Sounds fine to me, I don't hear a problem

[lfm]

It sounds like there is some modulation on mandolin somehow(wah or something).

The boxiness resonance of mandolin seem to enhance some odd partials, and as you say it does not sound all clean.

So either how mandolin is recorded, or it's just not a high quality instrument. I mean what makes a more expensive acoustic instrument is usually that material and adjusting is put more work into, making it favour the 'good' partials.

When talking about intonation and tuning it's important both of these are done i playing position with instrument, or just the weight of neck can make it be skewed.

And intonation with new strings is another thing. Dirt on part of strings can make intonation be right, but still be wrong when played.

[bobby yarrow]

There's something really wrong with something. You're getting heavy filtering of the mando, and I don't think it's possible that it's the instrument or the playing or the interaction with the ac gtr. There's something in your project that you're either not aware of or didn't mention.

[Peel]

I think they're well-tuned but that the wah on the mandolin is bringing out some partials that you're not used to hearing up-front, creating the impression of out-of tuneness.

[Amberience]

Yeah, I think it could be some effect as opposed to tuning issues.

[Trevor Jackson]

I didn't mention I put Ronin on the mando. I do agree about the mando having some less-desirable partials, though. I guess an EQ would work.

Thanks everyone for their comments.