Virtual Ensoniq TS10/TS12 VSTi

[cameron_sydney]

Every since the Ensoniq TS10 was released, I had hoped that it would be made available in a rack-mounted version. Well needless to say, it never happened. The MR-tack came out soon after, but the effects chip inside was nothing compared with the one in the TS10. Still to this day, I have been unable to find patches in other machines that could replace those that I use on the TS10. Now, with the receptor - I have newfound hope!

So, my question is, is anyone currently developing (or interested in developing) a TS10 Virtual instrument that can reproduce the sounds and effects of the TS10? I guess it would also need to be able to load the user-patches from a sysex dump etc., and pretty much operate in the same way as the hardware version.

Also out of interest, did anyone in this forum happen to play a part in the development of the original Ensoniq TS10/12? (wishful thinking perhaps)

I'd love to see this VSTi - am I alone?

Thanks
Regards
Cameron

[xander]

You're not alone - I think it's a great idea.

I also wish someone would develop an 'ESQ-1 VSTi'. I know it's old but it is a venerable piece of gear and there are several original patches on there I would LOVE to have back, like the original Factory Bank preset 'Tack Piano', which I've never been able to emulate in any other FM synth.

Cheers,
Alex

[beej]

I find it unlikely that any third-party developer would try and do an emulation/recreation of a rompler, simply because you would need the original PCM recordings for the sample set which are at the base of all of its sounds, and those recordings are owned, and often policed fairly heavily, by the original company.

Also, a good rompler, along the likes of the topclass XV/Fantom/Motif/Triton/Oasys lines would still require are lot of DSP horsepower.

[xander]

Good points... But why couldn't one emulate that original wav form? I mean, a low A piano is a low A piano -- from there it's just leg work, no? As well, I was thinking along the lines of how there are emulated DX-7 presets available for the FM7...

[glaucomys]

Good points... But why couldn't one emulate that original wav form? I mean, a low A piano is a low A piano -- from there it's just leg work, no? As well, I was thinking along the lines of how there are emulated DX-7 presets available for the FM7...

You could try, but it won't be the same, doesn't mean it won't be better, just not the same and if it isn't the same, it should just be called something else. Those DX patches for FM7 are actually DX7 sysex dumps, so they are very close.

I personally feel there is a hole in my setup without an ESQ-1 and an ASR-10, but that is because I used them for so long, it would be nice to see something ensoniq appear in the VST / AU realm! Maybe some lucky day

[beej]

Yeah, the DX7 isnt based on samples/recordings, if you get the maths right it just sounds that way. FM7 does the same DSP as the original DX7, hence you can import the sysex and both will sound the same.

With a rompler, all sounds are heavily dependanty on the samples. Sure, you could substitute a generic piano sound, but if you have different samples, it won't sound like the TS10, even if the rest of the synth is a 100% accurate DSP model. And then what about specific unique waveforms? You load the sysex into the emulation, and the sounds won't sound the same - so there's little point in making the effort to recreate the rest of the TS10, since it won't sound like it anyway.

So now we are back to generic romplers - and there's plenty of them on the market.

So what is it about the TS10 that's so good that can't be achieved on an XV5080, or on a software rompler like Colossus? If there's certain sounds you need, you can always do a sampling session so you can have them handy, and dig out the TS10 for other things. Otherwise, if it's so important, just keep it

[cameron_sydney]

Call me a frustrated guitarist, but I have a lead-guitar patch on the TS10, in the style of Eddie Van-halen that I have never been able to reproduce elsewhere. Of course, it's heavily dependent on the TS10 effects engine and that with the mono-key mode, was able to emulate the finger-tapping style quite well. (Put it this way, I could play "Erruption" or the solo on "Beat It" and it didn't sound far from the original - even to some guitarists).

I'm not opposed to sampling the original wave-form (which is nothing special) with the effects off and then trying to reproduce it on another machine.

Perhaps someone can point me in the right direction to something that has the kind of effects power (particularly in the way of distortions etc.) as the TS10? (software or hardware). The main point being the portability aspect. ie. either a rack-mount unit or VSTi (or the like) that could be used on receptor. I know, I could buy a guitar rig and run something through that.. but I'm looking for a single-unit solution that can travel (by air) and has the flexibility to have patch variations (I have my TS10 patch buttons setup for harmonics, chords and other nuances), poly-pressure(feedback) etc.

Thanks in advance.

[beej]

If you break down the sound, what does it consist of? Is it multisampled? Are there different parts on different layers (like, meatey sound, harmonics layer, feedback layer etc?). Then what are the effects doing? Straight distortions and delays? Or something cleverer than that.

I'm pretty sure you could recreate the patch on other things - most of the romplers' strengths is in the patch programming, rather than directly because of engine features, imho...

[blaster78]

If you break down the sound, what does it consist of? Is it multisampled? Are there different parts on different layers (like, meatey sound, harmonics layer, feedback layer etc?). Then what are the effects doing? Straight distortions and delays? Or something cleverer than that.

I'm pretty sure you could recreate the patch on other things - most of the romplers' strengths is in the patch programming, rather than directly because of engine features, imho...

its a transwave synth with poly aftertouch, you will struggle like all hell to recreate it if the patch is using all the tricks.

if its a simpler patch it should be easy like you say.

[cameron_sydney]

yes, multi-layered, but active separately.
The main parts of the sound are:

1. Normal guitar string sound - mono-key mode (default)
2. Normal guitar string sound - omni-key mode (left patch button on)
3. Harmonic wave-form (right patch button on)
4. Feedback wave-form (active on poly-pressure - amp modulated)

The effects are pretty straight forward - Compression, Distortion, Delay, Chorus and Reverb. No fancy effect modulation.

All the rest is in the playing - the pitch-bend, mod-wheel (whammy bar) etc.
I think the Korg Triton Rack came close with one of it's factory presets, but nothing else I have tried until now. Of course, I could sample it and use the ASR10r (which I own) but in it's flight case it's one very heavy unit to lug around on planes.

Thanks

[beej]

I would suggest that you could replicate it fairly closely. If it uses samples, then I'd multisample them, and build the patch in either a sampler (Kontakt, ESX24 etc) or a flexible-architecture rompler like Dimension Pro, and use the effects in my host (Logic) as most VSTi's don't have as flexible FX units as the high class romplers.

So do you have the software to build this patch? And an audio clip would be cool, so we can hear what you're talking about...

[blaster78]

1. Normal guitar string sound - mono-key mode (default)
2. Normal guitar string sound - omni-key mode (left patch button on)
3. Harmonic wave-form (right patch button on)
4. Feedback wave-form (active on poly-pressure - amp modulated)

the patch button thing was pretty specific to the ensoniqs, most synths you'd have to actually set up mutiple patches and that would just be a work around. the nords and discovery offer the scene morph thing which would seem to be similar. there are probably others.

the poly aftertouch thing you are completely screwed on, theres almost nothing else out there that supports it.

[blaster78]

I would suggest that you could replicate it fairly closely. If it uses samples, then I'd multisample them

the transwave thing will screw you though, it would be a complete bastard (if not impossible) to implement that in a sampler.

i think xoxos did attempt a transwave style vst, that might be worth looking into, but you are still screwed on the poly aftertouch of the feedback and the multiplte "scenes" of the patchkey thing.

the thing about the ensoniqs was that they were not really romplers in a conventional sense. sure they could work like that but they had so much more too them. i think thats why we don't see any emulations of the vfx/ts/fizmo etc.

[cameron_sydney]

Thanks. My guitar sound didn't use transwave - just straight-up looped wave-forms, but I hear ya, about the patch-key thing (which was basically muting some layers and playing others).
Any real-world hardware sound-modules that you think could come close?

[blaster78]

Thanks. My guitar sound didn't use transwave - just straight-up looped wave-forms, but I hear ya, about the patch-key thing (which was basically muting some layers and playing others).
Any real-world hardware sound-modules that you think could come close?

if there was no transwave funny business involved you will probably get pretty close with a sampler like beej says, in kontakt you could even set it up as a multi and mute the instruments ala the patch keys. i presume the other samplers would all be the same. you could certainly run this on receptor if you realy wanted it in hardware.

still screwed on the poly aftertouch feedback though, theres so little out there hard or soft that supports this.