KVR Audio

iDavid · Post by **iDavid** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:13 pm

I was reading another master thread and Har-bar caught my eye.

For you guys that use it, what type of mix-down do you do before Halbar?

Just get good level on you individual tracks? (I figure the usually compressor limiter... etc)

add a master limiter?

multree · Post by **multree** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:36 pm

halbar sounds like some corny riegel to me

but before Har-Bal... well I try to make my mix peaking at about -0.3dB I then export this unmastered mix as a 32 bit file - put that into Har-Bal and make some adjustments.... turn up the limiter and add a tiny bit of AIR... that's it

iDavid · Post by **iDavid** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:58 pm

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:15 pm

iDavid wrote:AIR?

the very high frequencies are often referred to as "air" cos if you turn them up a bit it sounds more..... airy!

iDavid · Post by **iDavid** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:26 pm

Jbravo wrote:
iDavid wrote:AIR?
the very high frequencies are often referred to as "air" cos if you turn them up a bit it sounds more..... airy!

would that be something that you add in Har-Bal?

I assume so...

I guess the limiter too

and do guys like the results you get with Har-bal

compared to?

multree · Post by **multree** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:53 pm

no AIR is a setting in HarBal 2.2

the first version was just an equalizer with loudness compensation - the new one has a two stage compressor (the latter being a limiter) and an AIR setting... plus intuitO and MatchQ

ATS · Post by **ATS** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:56 pm

is HarBal esentially just an eq?

multree · Post by **multree** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:24 pm

well sort of but it's kinda different.... hard to explain really you'd gotta try it... but lemme try:

it's a loudness compensated EQ which means when you increase frequencie volume the overall volume drops in order to maintain the same loudness of the material

it can analyze music files in order to give you an idea of what a good freq spectrum would be...

it has intuitQ settings which compensate for drastic frequency dips or hills to avoid masking of the frequencies next to the extreme valued one - or whatever the english term for that would be...

then it has as I said a limiter and an AIR setting...

it's really cool to give you an idea on how your music will sound on different systems even if you're listening environment isn't superduper.

You can also match the EQ curve to that of another song - which isn't the most super wise thing to do since it won't sound the same anyway... but in HarBal you can match certain areas... leave alone others...

well it is simply a cool and easy tool to get a balanced sound..

multree · Post by **multree** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:25 pm

but see for yourself http://www.har-bal.com/

morelia · Post by **morelia** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:15 pm

The two songs here http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2055684 were HarBal-ed. I just get the best mix I can, no mater effects. Then I eq in HarBal. With these two all I did was intuitEQ and very little else. It is the first time I have relied on that feature. I'll have to have a look into these new buttons and what they do. IntuitMatch seems useful. Then I load the saved file into Wavelab for a little multiband, some stereo enhancement or master reverb and limiting. I sometimes load a spectrum from a similar song to help steer me toward the right spectrum but that often ends up as a mistake as well. I use HarBal on all my songs though and it always makes an improvement IMO.

MelodyMan · Post by **MelodyMan** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:55 pm

Read the manual that comes with HarBal. It's very informative and mandatory to read for getting good results.

Mastering is an art, also with HarBal, but with HarBal it's done much faster and more intuitively.

MarkSA · Post by **MarkSA** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:05 am

People have found sometimes going to an expensive mastering studio they don't come away with a good result.

Harbal helps to even up the playing field for a small price.

Acoustics in studios and in the home studio is a issue that can be hard and expensive to address. Harbal helps a lot.

I mix the tracks first and then use Harbal. I also use it to re master other peoples recordings.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:47 am

The Har Bal story with frequence-matching is not the way which works for all people. Its a toy for newcomers to learn how a frequence-curve should look. But the real work must be done in the mixing not at the mastering stage.

I cannot find any usage for Har Bal. Its only a dream that mastering and mixing can be done without knowledge about it. Its a good transparent (something as a dynamic linear phase?) EQ, thats all.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:21 pm

The best I can say about Har-Bal is that it's kinda interesting to view how frequency distribution is in a given audiotrack. However, I found no use in it for mastering applications. It's possible to do a very well balanced mix, almost a straight line in thte analyzer that actually sounds good - but you've got to do it at the mixing stage. Some of Bob Clearmountains mixes have that quality BTW. Still, there's no way to do it later. The mastering engineer has do work on what he gets, and that mix needs individual treatment by EAR, not following a hypothetical optimum visually.
I also found the EQs in Har-Bal to sound inferior to dedicated EQs. If you cannot afford sending your music to a ME use a great sounding free EQ like the PLPAR, switch between monitors and headphones if availible all the time, compare to great sounding mixes and slowly work your way up to a better sound. There is no magic-wand-tool.

ludaluda · Post by **ludaluda** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:28 pm

Air in harbal is not high frequencies, but stereo imaging control.

look closely you'll see. I tried this software yesterday and i wasnt really amazed.

HarBal people...