VSTI world hate MIDI GUITAR?

[krraqk]

After many years using midi guitars (mainly Roland GR,s) I wanted to play all the synth vstis sounds and purchased an Axon unit.

But my deception has been big, no one vsti has any support for the midi guitarist: there is no support for the mono-poly mode needed for the midi guitar in order to play correctly. Not having this feature its very frustrating, I need to set six instances to every monotimbral vsti in order to have something like the "mono-poly" setting mentioned and the amount of resources it takes is big. At every tweak I want in the synth I need to tweak SIX vstis, thats simply insane and discouraging. If the vsti is multitimbral the thing simplifies a bit, but a very small one, I need to load SIX times the same sound and tweak the six instances of it if I want to change something.

It seems that the midi guitarist are very few and no one care about us. SAD.

I post that here to know how others midi guitarists manage that situation and if there is some type of software which can add us to make the things more easy and less painful.

Any help or ideas would be very appreciate.



PD: I have talked about it with a friend who do some programming and he said me that it would not be very difficult to make some type of vsti who would care about many of this tedious routine described below, there is the idea he explained:
You will open that vsti and inside you charge any vsti you want and it would open automatically six instances assigned to the six midi channels the midi guitar use. You will see the gui of the first one and every parameter you tweak would be copied to the six instances and voilá you manage six instances of the vsti just like if it where only one vsti.
With multitimbral vstis the thing is not clear if it would be possible, but those vstis can be managed just like a mono timbral one.
In addition this vsti can have some midi routines in order to improve the sometimes not perfect midi guitar source: deleting sort notes, muting open strings and many other useful things that would benefit greatly the midi messages generated by the midi guitar.
He said me that maybe he would consider to do this "midiguitar vsti" if there is some interest about it.

I dont have the technical knowledge about it and want to ask here:
That would be possible?
Its around something that already do that?
If not, its someone interested about it?

Thanks for reading and please contribute with your experience to this thread. We (at least me) need to improve the vsti midi guitar scene.

[2ndStringer]

I use a GR-20 to play VSTi's. I don't think that the GR-20 has the capability to send midi to six channels, but I may be wrong. Did you buy the Axon for this capability?

John

[selfconstruct]

I use a GI-20. It does a channel per string (if you so choose). I'm pretty sure the GR would allow for the same. It would be nice having a VSTi geared towards this.

[2ndStringer]

You are right. The GR-20 can do this in mono mode. So each string could be a different instrument. I guess it pays to read the manual sometimes.

Are there any VSTi's that allow this?

Actually, there was a message from WilliamK a few days ago about a version of Wusikstation that combined I think 8 instances into one plug, so you could play 8 different patches at once. He's still working on it, so maybe we could bug him to make it do this.

John

[krraqk]

I use a GR-20 to play VSTi's. I don't think that the GR-20 has the capability to send midi to six channels, but I may be wrong. Did you buy the Axon for this capability?

John

Of course the gr20 is able to send midi to six channels its the standard procedure in midi guitar converters, because its the only way to be able to send pitch bends with every string and capture all the pitch nuances your fingers do BUT if your synth cant work in mono-poly mode that will create a sound nightmare.

That's why the synth inside all the GR guitar synth line supports that mono-poly mode and when you recall a patch all is configured properly and works wonderful without the issues I have described in my previous post, that's the beauty of those Roland GR.

With external synths the history is very different, there is when the problems starts, when you want to play others synths hard or soft, in especial vstis which don't support that mono-poly mode. That's the topic of my post.

The Axon, which works wonderful if tweaked and played correctly, has some special mode (don't know if the GR's or the GI20 have it): in this mode when you are playing a single string it sends pitch bend but if you star to play 2 or more strings, then it don't send PB and avoids those horrendous glitches that sending PB with 2 or more strings would cause. But this workaround is not enough because sometimes it can react so fast to avoid it completely and in the end you lose expressivity. So the best solution is to use that mono-poly mode or launch six instances of the vsti you are playing.

[dluther]

Well, for the most part you're right. And until there are more guitarists that take an interest in virtual instruments, that trend will probably continue.

However, all is not lost. There are several instruments that respond on multiple channels -- the Roland/Edirol canvas instruments are the first ones that come to mind.

As you mentioned, you could use six VSTis together, but depending on the instrument your computer might not handle them. Native Instruments' FM7 and Pro-53 are both very good, very CPU-friendly instruments for this type of application. Additionally, the Arturia CS-80v allows you to remap individual voices into 4 indipendent zones that can respond on specific MIDI channels; not great for a 6-string instrument, but probably worthy of exploring.

Ultimately, you're going to have to contact the manufacturers and developers directly to help your plight.

I was wanting to get a Haken Midiboard, but haven't because of this same issue.

Good luck!

[krraqk]

You are right. The GR-20 can do this in mono mode. So each string could be a different instrument. I guess it pays to read the manual sometimes.

Are there any VSTi's that allow this?

Actually, there was a message from WilliamK a few days ago about a version of Wusikstation that combined I think 8 instances into one plug, so you could play 8 different patches at once. He's still working on it, so maybe we could bug him to make it do this.

John

We need a more universal solution IMO. While I would love if Wusikstation (and others, of course) supports that monopoly mode there are many many others vsti's where we will remain having that problem. I own Wusikstation but its not by far my preferred synth.

[MaxJoy]

You can do some midi trickery with Energy Xt loaded as vsti. It's much like your friend's vision, it serves as a vst subhost and lets you manage your six vsti instances quite easy. You can control them all at once with midi commands and finally save your settings.

[WilliamK]

I own Wusikstation but its not by far my preferred synth.

But how about I help you setup Wusikstation to make it work?

Right now, WS already supports 6 midi channels, one per Layer, and each layer can be set to one-voice monophonic. Not sure what else you would need. Also, you can set a sound to all layers very easy, using the automated load. Anyway, tell me more, so I can guide you better...

Best Regards, WilliamK

[tconrardy]

My Casio DG20 has two modes. a midi channel per string..or one midi channel for all( multi-mono.)

To achieve what you want, you could use something like EnergyXT. Whenever you do a tweak, save it as a preset. Then load up on your six instances of your same vst( or for wild thing..different vsts with different sounds.)Savethe whole project as a eXT preset.

You would have this same issue with any hardware synths you choosed as well.

however I usually use mono mode, so its not a problem for me

Tim

[guitarzan]

GForce impOSCar has a MIDI guitar mode, and that's VST.

For a hardware synth I know that the Oberheim Matrix 6 has a guitar mode.

[krraqk]

You can do some midi trickery with Energy Xt loaded as vsti. It's much like your friend's vision, it serves as a vst subhost and lets you manage your six vsti instances quite easy. You can control them all at once with midi commands and finally save your settings.

That sounds something interesting. Never used Energy, there is some type of midiguitar preset or something similar in order to manage six vsti instances or I would need to program it from 0? Not that its a unsolvable problem, but first I would need to know that it would serve all my purposes to evaluate if the effort would worth it.

[MaxJoy]

You have to make your six-instrument-setup by hand. Simply insert one instance and then clone it 5 times. I use an external midi foot control to switch presets and to tweak parameters, this is much more comfortable for guitarists than mousing around . Energy lets you asign your midi cc messages to any synth knob. I would do this before the cloning, then you need to do this only once.



Good luck . And don't forget to plug your e-guitar into the computer, too, there are some very interesting vsts waiting for you .

[krraqk]

I own Wusikstation but its not by far my preferred synth.

But how about I help you setup Wusikstation to make it work?

Right now, WS already supports 6 midi channels, one per Layer, and each layer can be set to one-voice monophonic. Not sure what else you would need. Also, you can set a sound to all layers very easy, using the automated load. Anyway, tell me more, so I can guide you better...

Best Regards, WilliamK

Thanks for your offer William, I know WS has 6 oscillator which can be controlled by 6 midi channels independently, but what I want is to play some great presets with my guitar (which normally would use some or many oscillators in the engine), then it would not be possible to use WS with 6 independent midi channels.

Not that I dislike WS, in fact I like the concept and I think it has an enormous potential, I'm a big fan of the layering synthesis but I ended tired with so many presets and very few really great ones, even the factory ones, excuse me I'm not trying to be harsh, its good that there is a great community of people making presets, but IMO that thing is an art and not all people can do that. Sorry but its one of the parts of Ws that I like less. But obviously its a question for other thread.

[krraqk]

Hi Tim great to see you here.

To achieve what you want, you could use something like EnergyXT. Whenever you do a tweak, save it as a preset. Then load up on your six instances of your same vst( or for wild thing..different vsts with different sounds.)Savethe whole project as a eXT preset.

If that is all I can do with Energy, then it would not cover all my needs (automating the load, editing all the instances, etc.) In the other side if the vsti is multitimbral I can do that saving the preset with the vsti itself.

You would have this same issue with any hardware synths you choosed as well.

of course, unless I use some Roland and probably others which implement that mono-poly mode.

however I usually use mono mode, so its not a problem for me
Tim

Well is a solution, the Axon has a mode more elaborated has I explained previously, but that mono mode is very limited, what about to play chords?

What do you think about the software that my friend proposed to me?

Thanks for your input.