FR theme: Docking

[soma]

btw, extending the "dock page" functionality is any interesting topic as well. could be all sorts of features like midi mapping, mute/solo (for live presets) etc. An optional memo box at the bottom of each page could be usefull.

cheers
jorgen

Split from FR- improvements for midi control

Jorgen,

I agree completely that docking has huge potential for adding even more speed, clarity, and control.There is probably so much more that can be done with them. The midi mapping was the most immediate thing that struck me.

I'd love to hear what other people think can be done with docking. (I am starting to think of it in OO terms of aggregation and encapsulation...) Could something be done that helps you organize screen realestate(frames for showing >1 dock at a time)?Could we have docks for all sorts of stuff like, tabed browsing, tabed editors, or context sensitive editors, arrangements, mixers, etc

[edit: removed non-dock stuff from quote]

[soma]

...I would very much like to have a fixed setup with a few midi editor windows always open with different zoomlevels, and then by just selecting a part(s) in the sequencer, these part(s) will be shown in my already opened editor windows.
You could have something like a 'sticky' button in the midi editor to enable this function.
...

This made me think, "what if any window could be snapped into a fixed frame in XT? Clips could have their own dock in an editor frame"

It also made me think, "what if you could designate weather that frame should 'follow' the context sensitivity of selected clips, instruements, tracks, samples, etc, OR designate the frame to stay fixed to what it is showing now?"

[disturb]

This kinda gui topics are a bit too abstract for me to pop in with concrete ideas.

But i must say i do like the frames thing.

Soma, do you use foobar2000 ? Anyway you should, it's the best music player around , and it has a way to arrange its gui that could fit eXT quite well i believe :


Not sure you get the picture with only that part of the screenshot, if that's not explicit enough, i can make a more obvious SC showing the results on the gui.

This way one could set splitters to divide the screenspace as he wishes, and place certain components onto them.
In foobar you just make the layout and include the plugins in each part of the interface, then the resizing takes place on the gui itself.

Make several layouts and a quick way to switch them, and that could make a freakin flexible gui...

[soma]

The power looks tremendous, but I'm sure a screen like that would scare the pants off the average XT user. What does the output look like?

Funny, foobar is the classic name given to objects in Object Oriented design books.

(I think draging boarders and right click to insert frame could be the simplest way maybe?)

[disturb]

Indeed it's VERY flexible, foobar users come up with configs that look completely different, you can customise it to the last detail...

But for eXT we wouldn't need this level of control, a couple of knobs to add splitters, icons for the avilable comps, and a couple of extras (like tabs and a few options) and that's it.

If we could make different layouts and switch them with shortcuts, we could make a specific ones for each part of our worflow. That would be SO powerful, and i bet not half as cumbersome as most people could think. The configuration itself would be quite simple, one would just need to know what he wants to be displayed and how.

I think it would be better to make the layouts in a separate menu though, so that these funtions don't clutter the right click options or anything.

Here is what the foobar config above looks like : http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1497/fooscvp1.jpg

[S.HUSH]

If we could make different layouts and switch them with shortcuts, we could make a specific ones for each part of our worflow. That would be SO powerful, and i bet not half as cumbersome as most people could think. The configuration itself would be quite simple, one would just need to know what he wants to be displayed and how.

That's it right there. Dock whatever you like and position it any way you like.
For the latter, it would have to be modular as opposed to fixed (static).
This way you can have a *completely* customized layout(s).
As you say, with multiple layouts, you can switch via key shortcuts.

Dynamite!!!!

Edit: reworded my comments

[disturb]

If we could make different layouts and switch them with shortcuts, we could make a specific ones for each part of our worflow. That would be SO powerful, and i bet not half as cumbersome as most people could think. The configuration itself would be quite simple, one would just need to know what he wants to be displayed and how.

That's it right there. Dock whatever you like and position it any way you like.
If possible, it would be nice if it was modular as well (not sure if you guys are indirectly saying this but thought i would bring it up).
This way you can have a *completely* customized layout(s).
With the latter, as you say, you can switch via key shortcuts.

Dynamite!!!!

It sure is modular.

[S.HUSH]

If we could make different layouts and switch them with shortcuts, we could make a specific ones for each part of our worflow. That would be SO powerful, and i bet not half as cumbersome as most people could think. The configuration itself would be quite simple, one would just need to know what he wants to be displayed and how.

That's it right there. Dock whatever you like and position it any way you like.
If possible, it would be nice if it was modular as well (not sure if you guys are indirectly saying this but thought i would bring it up).
This way you can have a *completely* customized layout(s).
With the latter, as you say, you can switch via key shortcuts.

Dynamite!!!!

It sure is modular.

We'll see. Right now, docking is static so hopefully with more docking options, it will come with a modular approach.

[disturb]

Of course it's static right now, but if Jorgen were to implement a foobar style of layout, this would be completely modular.
And i'm sure soma is thinking modular too when talking about frames...

[S.HUSH]

Of course it's static right now, but if Jorgen were to implement a foobar style of layout, this would be completely modular.
And i'm sure soma is thinking modular too when talking about frames...

This is what threw me off:

what if any window could be snapped into a fixed frame in XT

I am learning about foobar via this thread (never even heard of it) so now that i know it is modular.....could be a way to go.

[glurgle]

I like the idea of being able to split tabs into frames. Having the ability to have a context sensitive editor (for all clip types) in a frame would be awesome. Right click on a dock name and split vertically/horizontally. If the dividers were dock bars, you could then have multiple pages docked to each frame. Docking would be recursive, and for full on modularity the ability to move a docked frame to another dockbar.

Sound fun?

[soma]

I am trying to think of a program that has captured the flexibility and neatness that I was going for but am drawing a blank.
Some times the problem is if it becomes too flexible then it gets messy, cumbersome or awkward and defeats the purpose.
If I had flash I could make a move to show what I'm talking about...

[edit I made this pictures very fast... I hope it helps more than confuses]

Here is a "use case"

"organize screen space with frames and docks"
-start with the main window.
large
-add a sequencer
large
-dock the sequencer
large
-drag the bottom of the screen up a little to split the screen into 2 frames
-drag the main window tab from the dock on top to the dock on the bottom. (you now have sequencer and main window horizontally stacked)
large
-press f3 to open the browser. Right click and dock to last focused frame.
-Drag the tab of the browser dock to the left hand side of the xt window. The side will highlight to let you know you are slpitting the frame and docking it on the left (you now have a long frame on the left with the browser and two horz. frames on the right for seq. + main win.)
large
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-press f3 again to open a new floating browser.
(skipped this in picts)
-Dock this to the last focused frame, the browser frame. You now have 2 docked browsers in the same frame to switch between to open locations.
(skipped in picts)

"make a new screen set with a separate and linked frames"
-In the main window, right click sequencer and select make new master dock
-The ex window now has a new dock to switch between the 3 framed one we just made and one with just the sequencer. The view of the sequencer in the new dock is not tied to the sequencer in the old dock so you can view seperate places.
large
- in the 3 framed one, ctrl+drag the browser frame to the tab for the new sequencer master frame.
-This makes a duplicate of that frame. This fram is linked to the browser in the old dock. Changing the folder in one master dock's browser will change the location in the other.
-You now have 2 master docks. One that has the sequencer, browser and main window. One that has a new view of the sequencer and a linked view to the same browser frame.
large





please tell me you guys understood that.
I'll try to add pictures later.

[disturb]

yeah pics or stfu

[robenestobenz]

I get it. As dock tabs would essentially be screensets yet still as easy to switch between, I'd use this sort of feature a lot.

One feature I would like to have with docked plugins/comps would be to be able to lock the view, hiding the titlebars of all docked elements and making them immovable.

[iU]

I get what you mean soma and I think you have something major here. Being able to work on different parts of a clip with different zoom ratios is, in itself, great. But your way of dealing with dock page is much more powerful. With drag and drop it would rule!

Working in a linear way is often troublesome for me because I get to loose sight of where I am in the song (don't know if I said that correctly...). I would love to have a portion of a clip and a global view next to it. Add to that the possibility to copy portion of a selection and paste it to another docked window (track) which has it's own parameters...and you've just save yourself a lot of time. Working with several drum tracks (first thing that comes to mind) would be much more easy.

edit: until then, Jorgen, if you could implement the "jump to song position" function that I asked, to please me