Cubae 4, older plugins, performance improvements...

[Sascha Franck]

I found this:
http://knowledgebase.steinberg.de/147_1.html

Looks as if quite some older plugins might not be compatible with Cubase 4 anymore and Steinberg is just handing all responsibility to the developers.

- Can I still use my existing plug-ins and instruments?
Yes. Existing VST 2.4 plug-ins and instruments are fully compatible with Cubase 4. Any plug-in or instrument older than VST 2.4 must be tested and potentially updated.

Also, in that article they're raving about the "new" feature of VST3 plugins only consuming power when something is sent through them. Now, how the f**k is it possible that hosts such as Logic/PC, Samplitude and Sonar are already doing this with EXISTING plugins?

Really, wtf is this all about? Can't see too much of interest in the rest of their improvements either. Basically, in one or the oher host you could already do most of the described things.

[mojkarma]

Don't know about Samplitude, but Sonar definitely doesn't have this feature. At least Sonar 5. Plugins in Sonar consumes power, regardless if they process something or not.
And BTW, nobody sees all of their wishes completely implemented into an upgrade.
For example, the only 2 things, that cakewalk improved in Sonars midi area from Sonar 1 to Sonar 6 is the ability to shorten/lenghten multiple midievents at once and the ability to see all controllers at once in a single controller lane (consider what kind of mess this produces).

You are working extensively with midi. No, take the time, download the existing Sonar 5 demo, open the pianoroll and do a little work there. (BTW, there is not a single improvement in sonar6). You will not believe, how limited the editing possibilities are in sonar (no mute, split tool, clicking hell to edit a controller parameter, etc.) for midi.
Even after 6 versions, midi is for example ways behind what cubase or logic offers since the atari days (more than 10 years ago!!).

I'm not bashing sonar here, but as a Sonar owner this is what I can say about some aspects of this software.

So, what is a improvement in a new version and what not, is completely up to the user.

[Josmoker]

Can't see too much of interest in the rest of their improvements either. Basically, in one or the oher host you could already do most of the described things.

Why would something not be of interest to Cubase users just because it can be done already in another host?
Of course the new power-saving feature is not new - it's a nice feature for users with hosts which don't have it built-in, though. Maybe that's why the Steinis didn't put it in th host but rather the plugin standard?
Cheers, Jo

[topaz]

I 100% agree Sascha

they are adding nothing that isnt already in logic pro.

Really, wtf is this all about? Can't see too much of interest in the rest of their improvements either. Basically, in one or the oher host you could already do most of the described things.

[bleebsen]

Now, how the f**k is it possible that hosts such as Logic/PC, Samplitude and Sonar are already doing this with EXISTING plugins?

Regarding Logic I often asked myself the same thing.

I think it's part of the reason some plugins never worked in Logic: Logic has some non-part-of-the-VST-spec way to determine if a plugin is doing anything or not. And on some rare occasions it errs.

And *IS* there really a way to tell that a plugin is not in use? Even with "zero" input a plugin might produce output (reverbs, delays, noise). And the sequencer won't know if it does until it has actually let the plugin process the data.

So I think there's now an "official" way to communicate between host and plugin to determine if it's gonna do anything or not. (Supposing here that it'll only work with VST3 plugs anyway..??)
And this has to be communicated, erm, positively by Steiny

yours
bleeb

[mojkarma]

I 100% agree Sascha

they are adding nothing that isnt already in logic pro.

Really, wtf is this all about? Can't see too much of interest in the rest of their improvements either. Basically, in one or the oher host you could already do most of the described things.

So what?
MS Vista has nothing new, which isn't already in the current OSX. Will this make people change to Mac?

[topaz]

I am, as soon as possible.

So what?
MS Vista has nothing new, which isn't already in the current OSX. Will this make people change to Mac?

[Josmoker]

I 100% agree Sascha Wink

they are adding nothing that isnt already in logic pro.

So glad for you Topaz. For Cubase users like me it might still be nice improvements, if you don't mind. Apparently there are some things that are better in Cubase than in Logic as well - wouldn't you like to see those things improved?

[Kingston]

PC, Samplitude and Sonar are already doing this with EXISTING plugins?

Not only that but it's dead easy to do this internally to any plugin, ever since VST 1.0 pretty much. Admittedly not a lot of devs do that.

[topaz]

can you tell me what they are.

and i will tell you if that makes me not want to goto logic and stay on PC and upgrade to cubase4.

[Apparently there are some things that are better in Cubase than in Logic as well - wouldn't you like to see those things improved?

[bleebsen]

PC, Samplitude and Sonar are already doing this with EXISTING plugins?

Not only that but it's dead easy to do this internally to any plugin, ever since VST 1.0 pretty much. Admittedly not a lot of devs do that.

But it's not that easy from the hosts point of view, or is it?

[mojkarma]

I am, as soon as possible.

So what?
MS Vista has nothing new, which isn't already in the current OSX. Will this make people change to Mac?

I already own a Mac and run Logic on it (while Sonar and Cubase is still on my PC).

1. I bought a new Mac, running OSX 10.3
2. Bought Logic 7.0 - pretty buggy.
3. HAD to pay for the update 7.1 which eliminated most of the bugs (nice from Apple to let their users pay for resolving bugs ).
4. Apple released a new update (7.2) which is UB and adds some new features
5. Again, had to pay for this, but wait...
6. to run Logic 7.2 (attention, it is not a new version), I had to update also my OSX from 10.3 to 10.4
7. Bought the update for OSX

You see, tha gras is not always greener on the other side.

[topaz]

that sounds about the same or not as bad as my years with PC and Steinberg.

1. I bought a new Mac, running OSX 10.3
2. Bought Logic 7.0 - pretty buggy.
3. HAD to pay for the update 7.1 which eliminated most of the bugs (nice from Apple to let their users pay for resolving bugs ).
4. Apple released a new update (7.2) which is UB and adds some new features
5. Again, had to pay for this, but wait...
6. to run Logic 7.2 (attention, it is not a new version), I had to update also my OSX from 10.3 to 10.4
7. Bought the update for OSX

You see, tha gras is not always greener on the other side.

[stag]

I 100% agree Sascha

they are adding nothing that isnt already in logic pro.

Really, wtf is this all about? Can't see too much of interest in the rest of their improvements either. Basically, in one or the oher host you could already do most of the described things.

Does Logic use VST? wtf has Steinberg to do with Logic?! nothing i guess different apps, Logic even only run on apples, doesn't support directly VST much less DX.

[Kingston]

PC, Samplitude and Sonar are already doing this with EXISTING plugins?

Not only that but it's dead easy to do this internally to any plugin, ever since VST 1.0 pretty much. Admittedly not a lot of devs do that.

But it's not that easy from the hosts point of view, or is it?

yes it is if there's an interface between the two, like there is now, otherwise the host has to figure out when to shut down things on it's own.

This new feature is a certainly handy with VST3, and allows real-time usage, unlike the old logic implementation. I'll be sure to support it on my end as well when the time comes.