Looks like a Finalizer Plug In

[raja_hectic]

http://www.rogernicholsdigital.com/Deta ... tailer.htm

I've always loved what the TC Finalizers can do to pump up a mix. This looks interesting. Anyone know if there are other any other products like this on the mkt?

[Compyfox]

Yet another tool by "Roger Nichols" that's totally overpriced and nothing else than an all-in-one one-click-pony to squash the shit out of your tracks cause it's "pop standard" (and I'm sure it automatically "is" a standard already before it was even released - so if you don't use it, you're a crappy engineer!)

Any other products like this?
Sure, and much cheaper too: izotope Ozone!

[raja_hectic]

Any other products like this?
Sure, and much cheaper too: izotope Ozone!

Thanks. That's what I thought.

[sinkmusic]

Maybe you can try Buzroom 5bands compressor. It is cheap, well detailled, with a lot of possible tweakings ?
It does multiband with very good visual feedback, spatial widening, etc.

[leonard]

wrong board?

[inverseroom]

That app looks a lot like a cut-down equivalent of Ozone, except with crappy metering, an uninformative and unattractive GUI, and for more money...

[NAD]

Detailer? Shouldn't it be Detailizer?...

[kritikon]

At least I see he's dropped the prices to roughly the same ballpark as comparable companies...$289 isn't too bad if the limiter is actually any good.

It looks remarkably like the old DB Audio master limiter, which was 3band and had the same graphical representation of the bands. I quite liked their GUI. One would have to assume that the algorithm etc is actually coded by the Elemental Audio people rather than Roger Nicholizer...which probably means the sound is actually quite good.
Doesn't say anything about iLoks though - I presume he still uses iLoks?

Personally I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, but it may be a nice limiter despite my bias. There aren't that many 3band limiters of quality around.


I have to say that the harmonic "detector" thingy looks like smoke and mirrors to me. Notice he calls it a "detector"? It probably detects things to make a nice GUI, but I see no mention of it actually "doing" anything apart from detecting.

Maybe he's releasing nice plugins...trouble is, he's lost my attention pretty well for ever simply by his inept and avaricious initial marketing. I know he's not a company I personally want anything to do with. He's introduced iLoks to what were good plugins, then doubled their price...once you're a customer, what gaurantee is there he won't do something else snide when he's captured your money for version1?

On a side note...I actually think the GUI is fine...much better than what he did to the others.

[kritikon]

Oh yeah...as to it being a Finaliser. I'd agree with Compyfox; Ozone is more akin to a Finaliser simply because it has all the features and functions. The Detailer seems to be only a 3-band limiter to me (and a ditherer). A Finaliser does much much more than that.

[Compyfox]

At least I see he's dropped the prices to roughly the same ballpark as comparable companies...$289 isn't too bad if the limiter is actually any good.

As you can see, he stroked out the regular price of over 350USD which I'm fairly sure will be the "official" one after the introductionary price. I still stand to the opinion that Roger Nichols simply buys up stuff, puts his name on it, throws on some shitty presets that're way too overpowered and not even in certain standard (cause "he" sets the standards) and you have to eat it or jack off.

It's a sad fact unfortunately. And I only await the day that "his plugins" are on the same level as "Waves" - and we all know the deal... if you're not using Waves in your studio, you're a crappy engineer. I just won't take that, sorry.


There're so many great alternatives out there. Ozone might be one as all in one solution and don't underestimate the freeware or "cheap stuff" (Crysonic, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, GVST, Smartelectronix, CLAS, Elogoxa, TbT) either - I'm working with that stuff on a daily base and I get the same results in the end. Unfortunately, the industry doesn't think that way - then again the crowd doesn't fight for that either.

I mean... is it really necessary to pay 350+bucks for a plugin while I could get like 2-3 outboard hardware devices (hell even Lexicon with way more functions) for that money? Software still needs the PC, and so called "uber-professional engineers" swear upon SSL boards and several hardware modules anyway. Then why make it hard for those with talent and skill, but no money to build up a studio or no luck to work for or even at one?

Seriously... I don't get it. And this is what pisses me off on Waves, Roger Nichols and how they're all called - only that RND is in the shooting range atm due to his... uhm... not so good examples.

Just my 2c.

[ATS]

"Make it loud, please
Using the advanced limiting algorithms from our highly acclaimed Finis plug-in ensures maximum audio levels - if that's needed - while preserving audio dynamics. Using Detailer along with Dynam-izer will give you the loudest mixes on the planet, and leave your dynamics intact.

"

What a bunch of total crap . No wonder all these new artist think you have to make your tracks as loud as possible.

[Compyfox]

ensures maximum audio levels - if that's needed - while preserving audio dynamics

That's impossible right from the start. "Making it loud" means massively compressing the frequency bands to raise the loudness of the track. At the same time your dynamics (as in form of volume changes - take as example an orchestra from Pianissimo to Mezzofore) are being reduced to a certain definite minimum.


THIS is why people like Bob Katz fight for better engineerings and dynamics in a song. With the K-System yoU're forced to a certain level as "maximum", and it ensures that you keep your dynamics.

That... "Detailer" doesn't even have a function to setup the meters to "respond" to the K-System. Roger Nichols sure sets standards here - the standard that's constantly being sticked to for years now: the loudness race.

[kritikon]

Then why make it hard for those with talent and skill, but no money to build up a studio or no luck to work for or even at one?

Weeeellll..that's really a moot point. Having expensive plugins available on the market doesn't make life any more difficult for you or anyone else. You can still use cheaper (and I agree fully)...sometimes, better plugins. Just because other people or studios have money to burn, affects you not one bit. There will always be expensive plugins aimed at those with money to burn.
And as you say...you can nowadays get very good h/w units for sometimes less than plugins.

The only good bit with RND is that he's aimed at those people, and so far at least, failed to capture their market. .


There may possibly be a segment of consumers that have a view that if you don't use the "in" s/w of the moment, than you're not a good engineer. But you'll probably find that the good engineers don't actually want or care about that particular set of customers. And you'll also often find that musicians with good sense don't seek out the "trendy" engineers. Sure some bands (or rather, labels) do seek out the trendy remixers or "producers"...but those "producers" aren't the ones that really affect the core sound of any project by using "trendy" tools. They merely appeal to the gullible audience at the end for product-selling purposes. In the past I've seen fancy DJs named all over covers on projects...and I've seen what's done in the studio, and the fancy DJ has done f**k all. They've just bought his name, and tried hard to be polite to him by telling him in a nice way to get the hell out of the way of the serious stuff going on. You would be amazed by how many "name" DJs/ producers/ remixers know shit-all about how to actually engineer music. They may be creative and may well have creative input...but that's completely different from knowing what frequencies do what to what, and how to set up a compressor. I wouldn't let most DJs anywhere near a compressor - they assume the more it lights up, the more it's doing good things.

Probably RND is trying to appeal to them. Well...they deserve each other.

[Compyfox]

Actually it's not a mood point, especially not if you enhance that with magazines and so called pro's (that just crawled out of nowhere) start rambling on how good a certain studio/equipment is, how it has to be, etc.

The point is, and I'm among those people, even though young musicians look for cheaper alternatives to get their stuff mixed up or to the masses, they're still "shaped" by what the industry says. For example: Keys and Keyboards germany always say "this and that is standard, even though it's old". And that's always involved with Waves, loexicon, Focusrite and SSL - if you don't have that (or any of that), you're nothing, your sound is nothing, therefore your studio is nothing - it's crap.

Or what about that bullsh*t with Behringer? I use Behringer Equipment. It's cheap, it's transparent, it works (Behringer Control) - hell I'd even use the DX Mixer if it'd still be available. Or the thing with "monitor controller". There#s the Mackie Bigknob for like 350bucks, and there's like the Behringer Minicontrol for like 89bucks - features are the same, design is a bit different (so is the frequency response - however minimal) - but it's a total "no no" in a "serious studio environment".

I mean - who made up that crap?! I've seen so many people post in boards what they use as equipment, and I always heard "get rid of this and that - and you have a good setup". Or if we speak about getting jobs "woha... you use this and that instead of Waves or a Powercore?! Sorry dude but I better go to a different studio", even though the other studio does nothing than riding the Waves Multiband Compressor on your track in wavelab 6 - which is in my opinion not only a waste of time and money.


THAT is the main problem. If course large studios have more money to burn, but that doesn't mean that they can set the standard and we small studios/engineers have to adjust to that! We loose the jobs, we are always in the shadow of others. And it doesn't matter how good we are.

That is a very sad fact. And Mr. "I sit around talking BS" Roger Nichols is one of the worst!

[kritikon]

So you're telling me you can't have any success at creating quality without expensive gear throughout? So...what have you been doing? Making crap music all the time? That's what comes through loud and clear...that you think your own stuff is crap because you haven't spent enough money.
I think that's an unhealthy attitude. If you tell other people that your music is cheap and nasty, they'll most likely agree with you. Your on a loser from the start. I'm sure you know of various bands that have had commercial success without mortgaging their lives. Sorry, but I don't understand why you have such an inferiority complex about it. Ignore what the expensive studios use...it really doesn't affect you.

For example: Keys and Keyboards germany always say "this and that is standard, even though it's old". And that's always involved with Waves, loexicon, Focusrite and SSL - if you don't have that (or any of that), you're nothing, your sound is nothing, therefore your studio is nothing - it's crap.

So you think Keys and Keyboards know about your own music better than you do?
If they knew so much about how to make classy music, why do you think they have to supplement their wages by contributing to magazines (often which spout exactly the same doctrinaire crap you've just spouted)? If you think you can't make decent music with the plugins you've got, and with Behringer gear, why are you bothering? You know...Behringer actually sell alot of gear - they're one of the biggest sellers out there...do you think there are absolutely no succesful musicians that have used Behringer gear? They sell their thousands of units only to losers?

I know of big selling singles that have been made on cassette multitrackers in the past. Their are many many acts that use s/w galore of all prices. There are VSTi such as Oddity, ImpOSCar, various of the Moog emulations, Arturia stuff...that have been plastered all over commercial releases. Those are a fraction of the cost of a Waves bundle. I know of singles and albums that used Alesis Quadraverb reverb all over them...those acts didn't need a flash Lexicon reverb to make good music. I've been in smaller studios many a time that really did not have expensive gear, yet engineered commercial releases. Sure alot of the acts go on to buy the good stuff when they can afford it...everyone does that in all aspects of life that they're passionate about. But it doesn't mean the cheap stuff is useless.


Seriously...if you're always looking over your shoulder at what the big-spending studios are doing, then you'll never get anywhere...mainlyt because you can't afford what they use. BUT...you can rent those studios for alot less than buying the gear - if it's that important to you to use what other people tell you, then go rent some hours in a fancy studio. (Personally I think you'd waste your money...you can spend money in a cheap studio with a good engineer and get equal results. All I see you doing is talking yourself down. Think about almost all of the acts you look up to...they talk themselves up, not down. In fact, they make a point of saying it's their talent, not their gear that gets them success. You've fallen into obvious trap number 1.


I remember distinctly years ago, going round to a guy's studio that daddy bought him. He had what was then equivalent to a pro studio - Jupiter8, ProV, loads of other topnotch synths of the time, Lexicon reverb, Eventide reverb, Ensoniq D/P4, small SSL desk, Genelec big monitors, racks full of fancy gear I couldn't dream of owning. His music he recorded and engineered was awful. He brought in an engineer (at daddy's expense of course) and it improved no end. I also remember going round to various mates that got into engineering, and I heard what they did in budget project studios, and what they did on my setup...it was leaps and bounds ahead sonically. Basically because they had talent at the engineering, not expensive gear. I remember doing the rounds of the studios that had set up alongside record shops (was common back then) and of course, the name DJs that tagged onto the projects as well. And those DJs couldn't produce shit on the fancy gear they had. It was always the engineers that got the sound. It was their talent, not the gear that got the quality. And those very same engineers regularly got their sound in expensive studios, budget studios, and on their own modest setups.


You've set yourself up to fail if you think gear is everything...it's not.