How to sample pads for trance and house?

[superddman]

I am having hard time sampling pads. I mainly produce trance and house and I really need to make them compatible for such genres. Please don't ask why I can't use VSTis. I just can't I really need sample pads instead.

Could you provide me with some tips?

[speccyteccy]

Buy some sample cd's? http://www.e-officedirect.com/samplefus ... rames.html for example.

Sampling a pad from an existing tune is not going to be easy.

Sorry, but I have to ask why you don't use VST's? You could easily do it with free software.

[[godbox]]

Go to modarchive. They have sample packs, but more importantly, you can downlaod trance/house songs in the .xm/.mod/.it formats. You can take those finished songs and examine how they make lush pads from very short samples (or long ones) or use the samples themselves (-cite the source and obtain permission if commercially used. this isn't the case with the free sample packs, though)
(1st)
http://www.modarchive.com/index_1.shtml

(new - haven't looked through yet)
http://www.modarchive.org/index_1.php

[tee boy]

You know what? I never get why people go to such lengths trying to find their favorite trance sounds in sample CD's and softsynths. If you look on the gear lists of most big trance producers, you invariably find:

- JP80x0
- Virus
- Roland JVxxxx

If I were seriously wanting to get some nice 'staple' trance sounds, I would just find the cheapest second hand Virus B and JV synth I could! You get the two for less than the price of a new PC.

But to answer your question...

If I wanted to make typical trance pads using samples in the box, I would probably want good multisampled sets of the following:

- choral ahs
- string ensemble
- synth saw / unison saw

The choral and string patches could be found on any decent ROM synth, orchestral VST of sample CD. The synth could be found on many VST's and a couple of hardware synths. If you dont have access to the gear, rent it! For a few quid, you can get a Triton or something for a day and sample the hell out of it. I know that BT, PVD etc all raved about the pads in the Trinity, so that would be a cool one to go for.

In terms of freeware sample sets, the only one Iv ever found that I liked was a Nord Lead 3 patch from VIP Zone. That was pretty good to be honest. Its a typical unison saw patch, but it works great as a big trance backing pad.

TB

[superddman]

Thanks for your help.

To answer some questions:
IMO sampled pads are much quicker to implement into tracks. As a WAV, you can quickly pre-listen them instead of going through VSTi.
Also, you can quickly reverse them for some interesting fx. And, they don't take up much CPU!!!

To clarify:
I am not trying to find the sources of samples but rather I am trying to figure out how to sample them

My questions are as follows:
1) What should be the length of such sample? I was thinking of either sampling 4 or 8 bar length. What do you recommend?

2) Should it be looped or just a normal single-shot with full release?

3) Should I apply fading to the samples? This could probably be done using ADSR envelopes later in the sampler.

[Bernard Quatermass]

Well, I don't see how it's any faster previewing samples as it is presets, but to each his own. I also don't see that a reversed pad would really sound that different from the way it does when it's played forward. Unless of course there are some rhythmic and animated elements going on in it, that would be discernible as sounding reversed.

Anyway, if you sample a set measure of bars, the sound will change length as you change it's pitch, so I'm not sure what the point in doing that is. Unless of course you intend to use it in a host that does time-stretching and pitch-shifting of loops, like Ableton Live or Acid..

You are probably best off sampling a small section, of the pad, and then looping it. Bear in mind, that if the pad has any sort of animation going on in it, that animation will change its speed as you change it's pitch. If that's the case, then you may need to do multi-samples for each note that you need to play.

As far as fading them in/out, you're probably best off doing that with the sampler's envelope. This will give you more room for adjusting the dynamics of the pad and it's timing against your music's tempo.

[superddman]

Thanks Bernard for your input. Ya, I know it sounds strange but I just really would prefer sampled pads.

Is there a way to create a long pad sample, say 16 bars, and then be able to play it at different lengths, like 4 bars or 8 bars? So that, if for example, I hold a note for 4 bars, the sample will finish playing after 4 bars with a nice fade out?

To be honest, I know there is a way to accomplish this since I've seen it done before.

[Bernard Quatermass]

I don't know for sure. I think that you would need a sampler or host that does realtime time-stretching. What sampler do you use? I think that Kontakt is capable of time-stretching.

[superddman]

Wow, I've finally got it. It is so simple too.

All you need is a sampler that has AHDSR envelopes.

The secret is to make the Attack longer and the Release shorter. What a secret, eh?

Here is a result:
The following audio clip consists of only a single "8-bar-long-pad-loop-sample".

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 226A66EC1F

Notice how this "8-bar-long-pad-loop" is being played at 1-bar-long-notes with a natural attack and release.

Also, notice how it is alternating in pitch (1 octave up and down!!!), showing the power of current pitch shifting algorithms.

In the last 8 bars of this audio clip, the full "8-bar-long-pad-loop" is being played. The sudden drop at the end shows that this indeed is a loop sample.