KVR Audio

NewSc2 · Post by **NewSc2** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:53 am

I'm having a hard time coming up with good basslines for most types of electronic music (techno, electro, trance... not quite house yet). I think I might be failing to see the "big picture" kind of problem. I've been transcribing (or playing along with) some of my favorite songs, and I still don't seem to grasp it.

I can make one and two-note basslines, but anything more than that seems to turn into a melody which doesn't lend well to a beat or song. Like the basslines are too long, or don't groove. I'm still trying to figure out what I should ask but I can't put it into words. I come from a classical piano and blues guitar background... which seems pretty cool but techno+blues+classical don't get along easily.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Can somebody give me some advice or any tips to practice?

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:09 pm

Coming from a heavy metal perspective I'd recommend trying to come up with sort of riffs for the bass, rather than the conventional "bassline".

Of course I'm the last person who could even tell you the diff. between, say, Techno and Electro so some audio examples from your end of what you're after would be helpful... but I'd say in general from your comments you should just stick to one or two note basslines.

Use subtle syncopation on what essentially constitutes one note, switching it up every now and then with a motion to a note or two up or down, but always returning to the original root.

Don't think of your music in terms of a chord progression in a "rapid" sense. Stick to one chord (like the I chord) and just sort of mess around on it.

Like say you were in the key of E, you might try something like this:

EEEDEEE- EEEDEGBG EEEDEEE- F#F#F#EBBBD

Basic Riff

Stylistically I have no idea if this works for what you're after, but you can see what I'm talking about? Sorry if it's not really what you had in mind, I'm speaking in genuine ignorance of the kind of music you're after...

The chord progression, BTW, is essentially i - i - i - iio-V and back to i

steponeloops · Post by **steponeloops** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:20 pm

Toxikator wrote:
Basic Riff

Really heavyish drum sounds, dude...

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:32 pm

lol w/e. I just grabbed three samples from the FL-DANCE drums folder. the point is the bassline.

MaliceX · Post by **MaliceX** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:11 pm

Electronic basslines are more static compared to performed basslines. Perhaps you should listen to a lot more songs of whatever particular genre you're trying to do.

Otherwise, do what everyone else does (and loves (to hate)) and put a single note repeating every second half beat, or with the hard kick lolol.

Of course, electronic bass can try to sound like performed basslines too. (Progressive music perhaps?)

sonarman · Post by **sonarman** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:26 pm

There's no such thing as musical theory in Dance music. It's all about production. If you're playing along to a 4-to-the-floor then avoid the kick (play the off beats)... that's about it as far as theory goes.

sonarman · Post by **sonarman** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:29 pm

MaliceX - Sorry. We posted at the same time.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:50 pm

sonarman wrote:There's no such thing as musical theory in Dance music. It's all about production. If you're playing along to a 4-to-the-floor then avoid the kick (play the off beats)... that's about it as far as theory goes.

still sounds like a musical theory to me

hasenbraten · Post by **hasenbraten** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:00 pm

I dont agree to the offbeat bass thingy. Theres lots of "dance" music that has bd and bass overlapping.
To the OP: Whats wrong with one or two note basslines? I seldom find very complex basslines in Dance Styles for the same reasons you posted.

peejunk · Post by **peejunk** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:01 pm

MaliceX wrote:Electronic basslines are more static compared to performed basslines. Perhaps you should listen to a lot more songs of whatever particular genre you're trying to do.

Otherwise, do what everyone else does (and loves (to hate)) and put a single note repeating every second half beat, or with the hard kick lolol.

Of course, electronic bass can try to sound like performed basslines too. (Progressive music perhaps?)

So, in your opinion there are only trance and prog basslines in EDM?

J/K

However no sane person nowdays will use the dreadfull offbeat thingie apart from hardstyle boneheads but they're another pair of socks completely.

The bassline should always either complement or support the rythm section, i.e. it can never be totally detached from it. It should also support tonality of the harmony above. You should probably not move the bass too much apart from adding some slides and off-beat blips to enhance the chord above (jumping into it's third or seventh depending on whether you're moving away, or toward a downbeat can be a good idea).

OTOH, in a lot of breakbeat music the bassline is the only melodic element in the track so you can basically do anything with a bassline. And nowdays in electrohouse I see a lot of that same aesthetic going on.

bullshark · Post by **bullshark** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:08 am

NewSc2 wrote:I'm having a hard time coming up with good basslines

What I do is usually lay down the chord progression and start playing root and only root while listening and following the beat for a few minutes. Then, when I'm impregnated with the beat and memorized the chord progression I let my finger do the walking 'till I get a basic riff, which I refine later. Doesn't take that long, just came up with this, starting with a Am-D-F progression in about ten minutes using that method; not techno, I know, but this method should work nevertheless. Once you've got a basic riff established I use those notes+the chords to make a pattern either on the bass neck or the keyboard and play the rest of the song within that pattern; patterns are your friends, some call them scales but for a lot of peoples, including me, visual patterns are easier to use than to try to memorize scales.

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:18 am

A lot of the discussion here relates to chord progressions. Since I'm not a musician, this type of pointer has always confounded me more than it's helped, since dance music often isn't based on obvious chord structures.

There's no steadfast rules when it comes to adding a bassline. First, learn the basics: the offbass, the offbeat double bass, the 16-th note pattern off-on-on-on, and then mix and match those patterns to get the desired result. In terms of music theory, stay within a chord, except for some so-called accidental note(which i'll say nothing more about because i'm not qualified to say anything of value about them). Moving up or down a semitone is usually a good thing if you're into darker styles of music. For dnb, throw in a tritone interval(+6 semitones) for good measure to add some gloom.

Hope this helps! These are some tips i've found useful, but YMMV.

MaliceX · Post by **MaliceX** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:02 am

Seriously, just listen to the basslines of different types of electronic music (except ambient kthx) and you'll probably get an idea of what you should try to build on.

You could even use a repeating arpeggio or complex phrase as a bassline. Works for me.

afreshcupofjoe · Post by **afreshcupofjoe** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:17 am

If you posted some examples of the type of bass lines you are going for it might make it easier for everyone to be more helpful. The question was pretty broad, and as you can probably see, the scope of the answers is all over the place.

NewSc2 · Post by **NewSc2** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:11 am

afreshcupofjoe wrote:If you posted some examples of the type of bass lines you are going for it might make it easier for everyone to be more helpful. The question was pretty broad, and as you can probably see, the scope of the answers is all over the place.

happy st. partick's day!

i'm too inebriated to post a sample right now, but to give you all an idea... my main influence (right now) is richie hawtin (his mixes and plastikman stuff). it's really simple stuff but if i have a 4 to the floor bass drum + his bass line... it doesn't really sound like his track. there are a lot of other things (samples, percussion) going on in minimal tracks... not to mention my synthesis skills aren't really at the point where i can satisfactoraily duplicate the types of minimal basslines he plays. i don't have a 303 either. to the poster who said use the chord progressions -- i've been listening to a lot of stuff that doesn't have any chord progressions... minimal stuff mostly sample/tribal/percussive based. and again my basslines fail in that regard...

other than that i listen to a lot of electronic bands.... so i guess kraftwerk, underworld, chem bros, bt... that kinda stuff.

when i'm more sober i'll post a few snippets of stuff i like.

thanks for all the replies! espeically toxik! altho that F# seems out of place. my basslines would put an F instead of F#. the groove is good, tho. i really think the problem i've been having is that i start a track thinkin i want it to be uptempo, but i use a downtempo or melodic bass, and... eh.. yet again. i'm lost for words. please continue the discussion~ it's really helpful

Simple electronic bass theory?