I've always wanted a real VCO-based analog, just for the sake of having it, because I've never played the real thing in my life and it's damn hard to find one where I live.
Recently I got the Oberheim Matrix-6R, which has DCOs, and I can't say I really like it. Plus it's next to impossible to have fun programming it, even from the software editor due to its sluggish SYSEX response. So my quest continues...
I'm contemplating now between Evolver and MFB-Synth II.
Since it's impossible for me to try first hand, I want to know from people who have tried it. Right now the softsynths I have are:
VAZ 2010
impOSCar
Oddity
CS-80V
Sytrus
ZebraCM
And I have the Alesis Micron as my only hardware VA.
My question is: Can Evolver or MFB-Synth II beat my existing collection in fatness/warmness?
I know the Evolver has lots of potential for weird sounds and cutting leads, but I don't know how well it does on basses. From the samples, it seems to sound quite clinical, not very analog, perhaps because of the very stable VCOs? I don't know. Evolver's owners give me your opinion please.
The MFB, on the other hand, seems to be able to create great basses and leads. Its potential not as great as the Evolver, but I care more about how well it can do what it does. Anyone owning this?
Hardware advocates, put the fuel in my burning GAS please! Other recommendation for >$500 analogs would also do.
Any software proponents to offer your opinion that what I already have are enough to crush those two analogs down, that they already sound as fat and analog as those? Kill my GAS please!
Any cheap analog to beat my VSTi collection?
-
- KVRAF
- 9600 posts since 17 Sep, 2002 from Gothenburg Sweden
I always like the Roland monos but i would'nt consider them bassmonsters though. For that there can only be the Minmoog but that is outside budget. 
-
- KVRAF
- 7879 posts since 16 Apr, 2003 from -on the outside looking in
For a bass monster, cheap, analogue -
try and esq-1 or sq80 (there is a new software equivalent, though
)
it's digital osc's but an analogue filter. Pretty easy to program with the numeric display and sliders (no knobs-all buttons). Great bass. ~$150. 61 keys with lots of soundscape potential?
all that said - I would stick to the software.
try and esq-1 or sq80 (there is a new software equivalent, though
)it's digital osc's but an analogue filter. Pretty easy to program with the numeric display and sliders (no knobs-all buttons). Great bass. ~$150. 61 keys with lots of soundscape potential?
all that said - I would stick to the software.
..what goes around comes around..
-
- KVRist
- 462 posts since 31 Jan, 2003
Find and buy a Roland SH-101. Best basses and great leads. That's the synth you need.
I played an evolver and it sounds absolutely great... but I prefer the "old" analogs...
http://www.vintagesynth.com --> choose roland --> SH 101 ...
good luck
I played an evolver and it sounds absolutely great... but I prefer the "old" analogs...
http://www.vintagesynth.com --> choose roland --> SH 101 ...
good luck
-
- KVRist
- 257 posts since 7 Mar, 2005
while its digital ive seen kurzweil k2000 racks going for 150 on ebay. blows away those vsti for analog IMO, not sure how much cheaper you can get for that monster.
-
- KVRAF
- 9220 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from Pequot Lakes, MN
Spend some more time with your Matrix. It'll sound as fat as any of the ones you have listed once you get the hang of programming it.
Since '91 I've always had at least one Matrix-6/6R in my rig (I've had as many as four). It's still my go to whenever I'm stuck and can't come up with a sound elsewhere that I like.
ew
Since '91 I've always had at least one Matrix-6/6R in my rig (I've had as many as four). It's still my go to whenever I'm stuck and can't come up with a sound elsewhere that I like.
ew
A spectral heretic...
-
- KVRist
- 462 posts since 31 Jan, 2003
knot0fvipers you're right... 150 for a k2000R is great... (I still have one!). Yes it blown away vst, but he wants real analog.... so lets him get one... It's a good move in today "I use only software" world...
-
- KVRian
- 1185 posts since 2 Jan, 2004 from England
the Jen SX synths are always around, knobbage galore, and that quirky Italian sound...
otherwise you might want to try a Paia Fatman - build yourself, so basic solder skills required - but real analog with the cheapest pricetag [and you'll know how to fix it when a resistor/capacitor goes....]
otherwise you might want to try a Paia Fatman - build yourself, so basic solder skills required - but real analog with the cheapest pricetag [and you'll know how to fix it when a resistor/capacitor goes....]
11, 418th in line to the KVR throne
-
- KVRAF
- 10597 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from Alberto Balsam
SH-101
Juno106
kind of rare but still dirt cheap and sweet in its own way, the Arpe Axxe.
Juno106
kind of rare but still dirt cheap and sweet in its own way, the Arpe Axxe.
-
- KVRian
- 536 posts since 8 Dec, 2004
Ever since i bought my evolver, i never ever used any soft synths for basses. And anything else... You add a slight modulation to the pitch of the oscillators and there you go 
ITS ABSOLUTELY FAT.
btw its my first analog synth, but i already feel dumb not buying one earlier.
ITS ABSOLUTELY FAT.
btw its my first analog synth, but i already feel dumb not buying one earlier.
-
- KVRAF
- 8731 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
I'll second the SH101 or 202 (you get a dual channel sequencer, more sequencer stuff, but no keys on the 202).
I'm not sure I'd suggest the Juno106 is such a good choice, mainly because it's DCO, not VCO, and TBH it's not a very special synth. Go for the older Junos which were VCO.
If you really want a bass monster, you'll not beat a Korg MS10. The bass on those things was huge. And they were almost unique for that era in commercial synths in that you don't lose the bass end when you sweep up the filter...almost all other analogues do that. It must be an unusual hardwiring routing thing. The other bonus is that you also get the patchbay thing, so you can make quite odd and different sounds to the average analogue. I've never yet found another analogue that had such a piercing and sweet PWM wave - when you make it thin and turn up the res etc, it's orgasm to the ears. Simply beautiful. But MS10s were mostly rubbish at holding their tuning. I got rid of mine eventually because I couldn't work for 15 minutes with it without retuning. I still miss it though. The MS20 has more, but doesn't have the character of the MS10. And the other downfall of the MS10 is it's a single oscillator...can't do detuned oscillator stuff. An MS20 is a great machine, but get an early one if you decide for an MS. You'll never run out of sounds to create on an MS20, and they are immense fun to play with.
They tend to be a bit pricey nowadays, but I think without going into the mad money end of the spectrum, I'd recommend the MS series above most other analogues for what you want. Playability and fun. I've had an awful lot of analogues in the past and my MS20 is probably the only one I will never get rid of. Don't care if it goes out of fashion, it is simply the most fun synth outside of a modular that I've ever owned.
All the older Rolands have their moments, but you tend to find them a bit limited once you've had them for a while (not the Jupiters of course...although the nevelopes are alot slower and less useful than you'd imagine on Jupiters, and the filters aren't the best). My MC202 is still a keeper, but it's a specialist synth - there's alot of type of sounds you simply can't make with it. The real exception to that one is the JX3p. I sold mine years back, but almost regret it now. It was a cheapo gem that was highly under-rated IMO. One of the few cheap analogues of the 80s that had osc sync. A basic sequencer, and capable of making some really subtle sounds alongside powerful ones. That Beltram Mentasm EP...alot of the sounds were done with a JX3p. Most assume he had all kinds of fancy gear back then, but he didn't. Anyone who has ownned a JX3p will instantly recognise those sync sounds on those tracks. You can reproduce that type of sound with things like MS synths, but a JX3p does it easily and has the bonus of patch memory etc. I think (not sure from memory) that it was DCO, but had far more powerful filters than absolutely any of the Junos. The JX8/10 were very sweet, but I'd imagine quite pricey nowadays.
The Yamaha CS series had some good'uns too. They tend towards the Korg MS sound in general and are very playable and fun too. Consider CS30 and above, preferably 40. They like the Korgs have a very distinctive and musical ring mod. Alot of digital and modern h/w ringmods are crap. The h/w ones are probably crap precisely because they're digital. Once you've played with an MS or a CS, you won't ever want to use a boring unmusical VST effect ringmod ever again.
A couple of other ones to consider are Sequential Pro One. A very good mono with sharp envelopes. It's a very good competitor to the 101/202 (almost as quick envelopes) for spikey acid stuff, but is a bit more flexible.
And Korg MonoPoly. You don't see them that much for sale, but it's one of the few synths I never owned but still want to have, even if only for a while. Had access to one for a while and it was almost as much fun to play as the MS series. Distinctive grungy sound too.
As for the Korg PolySix and other polysynths from Korg of that era...as crap as Junos. Big spongy wet things that just wobble along but never have any oomph in them. You can play chords, but really there's no benefit with them over almost any decent VSTi.
Mostly you're stuck with monosynths at the cheap end for old analogues. But it's surprising what you can do with them once you get into a different headspace. Once upon a time monosynths were it unless you had lots of money. And then samplers came in that let you play pads and chords. And we all got by very well. We get used to having every VSTi being poly and multi-tasking, but it is NOT essential. You can make good music with a mono or two.
I'd suggest an OSCar, they really get very close to an MS20 in terms of sheer playing and tweaking fun, but you won't get one anywhere near cheap.
You can pick up cheaper analogues, but then they lose features and often only have one oscillator. With the exception of the MS10, I've never been happy with only one osc on a synth.
I haven't played with some of the new ones such as Evolvers etc. so I can't compare. I thought the Evolvers had DCOs though? Or is that just the wavetable part of it that's digital?
Seriously, another option you should at least consider is a modular. Do your sums and have a close look at some of the Doepfer and other modular manufacturers selling today. Analogue
Solution sell modulars too (I think?). When you get down to it, the modules aren't that expensive, and you can get a basic synth up and running without breaking the bank. But the upside is that when you have funds you can add a modula at a time and eventually end up with a huge modular monster with multi filters and oscillators galore. With a modular, there's stuff you can do that is still very difficult to reproduce with VSTi.
And any built-up modular will do more than any commercial old analogue once you get past a certain number and choice of modules.
If you're going to just spend a couple of hundred $ or so, it might be better to wait and save up some more money. The cheap end of old analogues usually will disappoint compared to the better VSti nowadays. A Jen or Juno will sound quite poor against something like Oddity or impOSCar. Whereas spending a bit more will keep you happy for ever.
I'm not sure I'd suggest the Juno106 is such a good choice, mainly because it's DCO, not VCO, and TBH it's not a very special synth. Go for the older Junos which were VCO.
If you really want a bass monster, you'll not beat a Korg MS10. The bass on those things was huge. And they were almost unique for that era in commercial synths in that you don't lose the bass end when you sweep up the filter...almost all other analogues do that. It must be an unusual hardwiring routing thing. The other bonus is that you also get the patchbay thing, so you can make quite odd and different sounds to the average analogue. I've never yet found another analogue that had such a piercing and sweet PWM wave - when you make it thin and turn up the res etc, it's orgasm to the ears. Simply beautiful. But MS10s were mostly rubbish at holding their tuning. I got rid of mine eventually because I couldn't work for 15 minutes with it without retuning. I still miss it though. The MS20 has more, but doesn't have the character of the MS10. And the other downfall of the MS10 is it's a single oscillator...can't do detuned oscillator stuff. An MS20 is a great machine, but get an early one if you decide for an MS. You'll never run out of sounds to create on an MS20, and they are immense fun to play with.
They tend to be a bit pricey nowadays, but I think without going into the mad money end of the spectrum, I'd recommend the MS series above most other analogues for what you want. Playability and fun. I've had an awful lot of analogues in the past and my MS20 is probably the only one I will never get rid of. Don't care if it goes out of fashion, it is simply the most fun synth outside of a modular that I've ever owned.
All the older Rolands have their moments, but you tend to find them a bit limited once you've had them for a while (not the Jupiters of course...although the nevelopes are alot slower and less useful than you'd imagine on Jupiters, and the filters aren't the best). My MC202 is still a keeper, but it's a specialist synth - there's alot of type of sounds you simply can't make with it. The real exception to that one is the JX3p. I sold mine years back, but almost regret it now. It was a cheapo gem that was highly under-rated IMO. One of the few cheap analogues of the 80s that had osc sync. A basic sequencer, and capable of making some really subtle sounds alongside powerful ones. That Beltram Mentasm EP...alot of the sounds were done with a JX3p. Most assume he had all kinds of fancy gear back then, but he didn't. Anyone who has ownned a JX3p will instantly recognise those sync sounds on those tracks. You can reproduce that type of sound with things like MS synths, but a JX3p does it easily and has the bonus of patch memory etc. I think (not sure from memory) that it was DCO, but had far more powerful filters than absolutely any of the Junos. The JX8/10 were very sweet, but I'd imagine quite pricey nowadays.
The Yamaha CS series had some good'uns too. They tend towards the Korg MS sound in general and are very playable and fun too. Consider CS30 and above, preferably 40. They like the Korgs have a very distinctive and musical ring mod. Alot of digital and modern h/w ringmods are crap. The h/w ones are probably crap precisely because they're digital. Once you've played with an MS or a CS, you won't ever want to use a boring unmusical VST effect ringmod ever again.
A couple of other ones to consider are Sequential Pro One. A very good mono with sharp envelopes. It's a very good competitor to the 101/202 (almost as quick envelopes) for spikey acid stuff, but is a bit more flexible.
And Korg MonoPoly. You don't see them that much for sale, but it's one of the few synths I never owned but still want to have, even if only for a while. Had access to one for a while and it was almost as much fun to play as the MS series. Distinctive grungy sound too.
As for the Korg PolySix and other polysynths from Korg of that era...as crap as Junos. Big spongy wet things that just wobble along but never have any oomph in them. You can play chords, but really there's no benefit with them over almost any decent VSTi.
Mostly you're stuck with monosynths at the cheap end for old analogues. But it's surprising what you can do with them once you get into a different headspace. Once upon a time monosynths were it unless you had lots of money. And then samplers came in that let you play pads and chords. And we all got by very well. We get used to having every VSTi being poly and multi-tasking, but it is NOT essential. You can make good music with a mono or two.
I'd suggest an OSCar, they really get very close to an MS20 in terms of sheer playing and tweaking fun, but you won't get one anywhere near cheap.
You can pick up cheaper analogues, but then they lose features and often only have one oscillator. With the exception of the MS10, I've never been happy with only one osc on a synth.
I haven't played with some of the new ones such as Evolvers etc. so I can't compare. I thought the Evolvers had DCOs though? Or is that just the wavetable part of it that's digital?
Seriously, another option you should at least consider is a modular. Do your sums and have a close look at some of the Doepfer and other modular manufacturers selling today. Analogue
Solution sell modulars too (I think?). When you get down to it, the modules aren't that expensive, and you can get a basic synth up and running without breaking the bank. But the upside is that when you have funds you can add a modula at a time and eventually end up with a huge modular monster with multi filters and oscillators galore. With a modular, there's stuff you can do that is still very difficult to reproduce with VSTi.
And any built-up modular will do more than any commercial old analogue once you get past a certain number and choice of modules.
If you're going to just spend a couple of hundred $ or so, it might be better to wait and save up some more money. The cheap end of old analogues usually will disappoint compared to the better VSti nowadays. A Jen or Juno will sound quite poor against something like Oddity or impOSCar. Whereas spending a bit more will keep you happy for ever.
-
- KVRian
- 536 posts since 8 Dec, 2004
Yes, the Evolver has two VCO and two DCO's.
the VCO's have hard sync, and PWM. me like.
the VCO's have hard sync, and PWM. me like.
-
- KVRian
- 1178 posts since 24 Jan, 2003 from the hilly bit in Lincs, UK
I might be shouted at/down for this...
... but I was completely blown away by how meaty the Novation Xiosynth is in the low end. It really does have some grunt to it and is, of course, excellent for leads and pads as well. It loads patches from the other Station series too, which is nice.
Probably not the fashionable answer, but I'm certainly pleasantly surprised by how much punch the Xiosynth packs (and it's cute too!).
... but I was completely blown away by how meaty the Novation Xiosynth is in the low end. It really does have some grunt to it and is, of course, excellent for leads and pads as well. It loads patches from the other Station series too, which is nice.
Probably not the fashionable answer, but I'm certainly pleasantly surprised by how much punch the Xiosynth packs (and it's cute too!).
Mild-mannered web designer by day - tired web designer by night.
-
- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
The Evolver is such a cool piece of gear. It's amazing how much stuff they crammed into such a small box. I wish more manufacturers would try to do something like it.
That said, I'm not sure I'd describe it as a bass synth. Its greatest strengths probably lie elsewhere.
That said, I'm not sure I'd describe it as a bass synth. Its greatest strengths probably lie elsewhere.