KVR Audio

rektek · Post by **rektek** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:23 pm

i find myslef always tapping out beats with my fingers against a desk or something similar even unconciously without realizing it.

and i always wondered if there is a way to properly record each fingers performance as midi WITHOUT PADS.
ive tried MANY MANY types of drum machines and pad-midi controllers (such as the Korg padKontrol) but they are not good enough as the pads themselves are problematic in the way that they need to be pressed too hard and therefore the speed of the performance is limited and hindered.

regular piano-style midi controllers are useless for this as well since the keys need to be pressed much too deep and again this slows down the performance.

im thinking more on the lines of a 'strip' or some big pad split up into sections whereas the contact surface simply needs to be touched in order to receive a midi message.
the problem with conventional midi strips is that they are not seperated into sections and there is only one input key.

is there somehting like this out there?

portable would be great too as i could record beats while on the subway/train etc...

come to think of it, the ultimate solution would a trigger attached onto each finger so that positioning of the hand/wrist would not be a limiting factor either.

rhythmsickness · Post by **rhythmsickness** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:49 pm

there are gloves like this out there - marillion used to use them live

rektek · Post by **rektek** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:01 pm

rhythmsickness wrote:there are gloves like this out there - marillion used to use them live

hey thanx to your post i was able to find this:

http://www.nodna.com/MidiGlove.23.0.html?&L=1

its not the same one used my marillion (that one was custom made by Kenton) but its pretty much the same idea.

i wonder how much it goes for though cause i cant find a price on the nodna site.

Guckli · Post by **Guckli** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:17 pm

Record your finger-tapping performance using close mics and use trigger software like this baby (there are several other free vsts as well). Since my mics are always handy it's faster than hooking up my pads and finding a pair of sticks.

Lagrange · Post by **Lagrange** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:29 pm

Guckli

I agree with this method. You can also record to audio, normalize and then use beat detection (like Recycle, FL Slicer) to create MIDI a groove file! Then you can apply this to a drum kit..

L

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:38 pm

Get a used drum trigger , and plug in some cheap cassettr recorder mics and stick them in your pocket. Set them to trigger anything. I have a full midi drum kit and pads and still do this for quick inspiration.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:48 pm

Which sequencer are you using? Some of them (I am only familiar with Cubase and Logic, those do) allow for creating MIDI tracks out of recorded audio signals with ease, along with quite some adjustment options.

rhythmsickness · Post by **rhythmsickness** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:14 pm

one method would be to use a portable recorder like the zoom one, and just drum on its mike. Another option might be to look into cheap contact switches and make your own glove. The problem comes with converting to midi data on the fly. I think you'd need something specific for that than for just capturing audio. Which you could do on anything that had a mike and could record. ie even a mobile phone. as long as you could export the sound files from it afterwards to work on

rektek · Post by **rektek** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:23 pm

thanx for the input, but the idea of recording as audio then converting it to midi is not very attractive to me.
heres why:
1. i am limited to one input source so then i would still have to distinguish between what is bass drum, what is snare, what is hi hat or roll etc... (in my original post i used an example of a midi-strip but even that is only one input - i need isolated sections so each finger is recorded seperately)
2. the process seems a bit too tedious. i cannot fathom pulling out and setting up mics each and everytime i get a beat in my head and want to record it. and even if a portable recording device was used - then theres the process of conversion, then distinguishing sounds (from what is bass drum snare etc...) all of this is too much of a process that will get in the way of a creative workflow.

the midi glove is by far the best option.
anther would be one big strip type thing (such as the korg kaos-pad) but divided into sections so that each finger can be isolated.

Lagrange · Post by **Lagrange** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:11 am

rektek wrote:thanx for the input, but the idea of recording as audio then converting it to midi is not very attractive to me.
heres why:
1. i am limited to one input source so then i would still have to distinguish between what is bass drum, what is snare, what is hi hat or roll etc... (in my original post i used an example of a midi-strip but even that is only one input - i need isolated sections so each finger is recorded seperately)
2. the process seems a bit too tedious. i cannot fathom pulling out and setting up mics each and everytime i get a beat in my head and want to record it. and even if a portable recording device was used - then theres the process of conversion, then distinguishing sounds (from what is bass drum snare etc...) all of this is too much of a process that will get in the way of a creative workflow.

I guess you could tap out each instrument for separate tracks or you could just simply duplicate the MIDI track (which is not hard in most host)..

rektek wrote:the midi glove is by far the best option.
anther would be one big strip type thing (such as the korg kaos-pad) but divided into sections so that each finger can be isolated.

IMO your looking for trouble trying to get a glove to TAP a MIDI pattern. Hopefully the model you get has sensors in the finger tips!! Instead, would'nt a controller with a pad be way better?

. Just a thought!??! It's made for exactly what your trying to do.. Plus you won't have to really configure too much to get it working.

L

bernhardtjeff · Post by **bernhardtjeff** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:59 am

i wonder if the jazzmutant lemur could help you in some way. a bit expensive for just this use, i guess.

maybe experiment with a cheap normal midi keyboard. take off the keys, get at the actual triggers underneath, tap directly onto them or something? for the way you wanna do it, i don't think the mic idea sounds like the the way to go. it sounds like you really just want a padkontrol with much more sensitivity.

if you had a ribbon controller (or kaoss pad, like you said), you could probably use a midi-munger or something to set it to send different notes for different ranges of cc values it receives from the controller. no velocity sensitivity, though.

Spookyrockstar · Post by **Spookyrockstar** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:07 am

rektek wrote:
rhythmsickness wrote:there are gloves like this out there - marillion used to use them live
hey thanx to your post i was able to find this:

http://www.nodna.com/MidiGlove.23.0.html?&L=1

its not the same one used my marillion (that one was custom made by Kenton) but its pretty much the same idea.

i wonder how much it goes for though cause i cant find a price on the nodna site.

price is in the PDF at the bottom of the site. Right around 800 euros. I'd go with the audio conversion, or making your own. IMO.

Lagrange · Post by **Lagrange** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:43 am

Wow and I thought I try to re-make the wheel.. You could probably get a dirt cheap ROLAND SP-303, 404 or even a BOSS SP-202 that will do the job and fit in your pocket.

L

rektek · Post by **rektek** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:48 am

Lagrange wrote:IMO your looking for trouble trying to get a glove to TAP a MIDI pattern. Hopefully the model you get has sensors in the finger tips!! Instead, would'nt a controller with a pad be way better? . Just a thought!??! It's made for exactly what your trying to do.. Plus you won't have to really configure too much to get it working.

L

if you read the first post, i specifically said that the pad-type of triggers are too slow for what im trying to do (they also need to be hit pretty hard)

rhythmsickness · Post by **rhythmsickness** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:49 am

yeah unless your rich, I would seriously suggest jury rigging something out of a cheap midi keyboard, as bernhardtjeff suggests.
The problem to doing this is that you're going to have to have some method of storing and recording midi data with you at all times. Whether this is a sequencer or a laptop of some kind, or a pda or similar.
If you are going to be carrying a laptop with you at all times to do this then why not just use something like live or midikeys?
live lets you use the qwerty keys for midi keys, and midikeys does the same thing.
If keyboard presses are sensitive enough for you then perhaps you could jury rig a special keyboard for this very purpose, that you could cut down to just having the keys on you require for drumming with.

recording finger tapping as midi