Piano lessons/software without music theory??

[lotus2035]

..I realise the irony of posting this in the Music THEORY section but here goes...
I have been playing guitar about 20 years on and off so am quite familiar with chords, melodies, harmonies, progressions and so on, I also write my own electronic stuff and have a very good grasp of what I'm doing generally BUT I cant read music and dont really have any desire to learn..

I would love to further improve my keyboard skills as I know it would help a great deal with my songwriting to be able to play some runs and complex chord stuff..
Being a guitar player, I find, has lent itself to the keyboard somewhat in that I dont really have much problem tapping out a musical idea on the keys, sometimes using 2 hands and even basic chord structures but I feel that I could handle even more complex stuff with a little practice...

So I just wondered if there was any software or even online interactive lessons out there that would teach me more advanced piano without the hassle of having to learn music theory?...I have a piano course (e-media) with is quite good but of course you have to learn to read music first to progress to the more advanced stuff...I gave it a go but playing "Mary had a little lamb" and "Frère Jacques" 10 times in a row was killing me and my "serious musician" reputation.. LOL!!!..

Any help would be much appreciated...

[Nystul]

I think you would be better off to swallow your pride and learn the basics. Compared to actually playing the piano, learning to read musical notation is very simple. It just takes practice time to get your eyes and hands on the same page. But once you start to get the hang of it, extremely complicated musical ideas can be presented to you in a form you can instantly digest. The possibilities that would open for you are virtually unlimited, starting with the possibility to learn piano scales and chords without having to mimic note for note while watching a video or some other ridiculous way to get past the communication barrier.

[VicDiesel]

I would love to further improve my keyboard skills

Buy Czerny, The School of Velocity (or whatever the title translates as).

I think you're limiting yourself incredibly by not wanting to learn to read. Notation for all its imperfections is a very efficient way to convey information. I can not imagine another way that does not involve notation of some sort and that comes anywhere close.

Ok, see if someone has recorded the whole book, and learn it by ear. Good luck.

Victor.

[lotus2035]

...Thanks for the info guys...
Well, I should have said that I'm not totally against learning to read music at some stage, its just that i dont really have the time right now...but sure in the long term it is something I know I should do....It just seems with learning to improve my songwrting , production skills and everything else in between its hard finding time to fit it all in..

Maybe I should just have another go at that e-media course!!

[JumpingJackFlash]

I agree with Vic and Nystul. The thing is, the piano is a very different beast to the guitar. Many pop stars can play the guitar without necessarily reading traditional score notation (the Beetles being one example).

The piano on the other hand is different. It does not rely on repeated chords, and almost all piano music is written out on staves. It's just the most efficient way of notating it. (Well, sometimes certain people improvise from chord symbols, but this is nothing like guitar strumming patterns).

In order to play the piano to a good standard, you will just have to be able to read music. It's a pre-requisite really. Certainly, you will make life a lot harder for yourself if you can't.

And learning to read music is a lot easier than learning to play the piano. There's a learning curve obviously, you might have to start by pencilling in some of the notes or whatever, but in the long-run, learning to read music will save you a lot of time.

The other advantage to reading music, is that is can then be transferred to any instrument. You can then write out your own music for others to play, and it helps a lot when composing to get your ideas down.

To me, learning an instrument and learning to read music go hand-in-hand; part and parcel to so speak. You can't do one without the other, and doing one will improve you abilities with the other.

You could start by looking at my Introduction to music notation -How to read & write music, but go slowly. Make sure you understand the basics before you progress further. There are also many books on the subject, and many books on learning to play the piano. You would also benefit from a teacher, although this costs quite a bit.

[wrench45us]

You might want to take a loook at Rikky Rooksby's
'Songwriting on Keyboards'

http://www.amazon.com/How-Write-Songs-K ... 445&sr=1-3

it's mild on theory, mild on reading notation and concentrated on chord progression in songwriting and some voice leading and song structure.
I'm a big fan of all his books and looking forward to the coming book on arranging. I used it as my gentle introduction to keyboards and I've taken it from there into more jazz theory and slowly learning to read staff notation and the Hal Leonard style series books.

The only sort of underground piano introduction I know that doesn't use some form of staff notation are online gospel piano sites and DVDs that use a C G Bb / G (or is the other way?) notation system. I think that's more a person to person transmission tradition that's been adapted to modern times.
ex.
http://www.gospelkeyboard.com/

[lotus2035]

..thanks again guys..all good info...
@jumpingjackflash, the e-media course I have is fairly thorough when it comes to building up knowledge of music theory and I already have most of the basics down...I suppose I just had a mental image of advanced music reading being this huge obstacle to get over with years of work ahead but maybe its not that much eh? thanks for the tips..

@wrench45us, i have heard of rooksby before, i heard he was a good source so yes, I might check out that book..thanks..

[JumpingJackFlash]

@jumpingjackflash, the e-media course I have is fairly thorough when it comes to building up knowledge of music theory and I already have most of the basics down...I suppose I just had a mental image of advanced music reading being this huge obstacle to get over with years of work ahead but maybe its not that much eh? thanks for the tips..

If anything, learning piano is the big obstacle with years of work ahead, providing you want to play it well of course. In comparison, reading music is easy, particularly if you already know the basics. (Although, as I said, the two compliment each other well)

[lotus2035]

I fully expect it to be something that will take a lifetime to master..but thats half the the fun right?...I guess I will be learning music theory sooner than I thought..thanks everyone for helping me on the right path..

[lockheart]

If I understand the question and answers, there is some confusion between reading music and music theory.
I know a certain amount of music theory, and can't read a note. More to the point, Wes Montgomery didn't read music worth a hoot, he just listened and worked things out. That doesn't mean that he didn't understand the theory of what he was working on. Of course, reading music is the most efficient way of communicating musical information, including music theory, but the two are not one and the same. You can learn music theory without reading notation.

[Nystul]

You can learn theory without learning notation. However, anyone who has learned to read notation automatically knows quite a bit of theory. But this is pure semantics.

Having an efficient form of communication is not something to be taken lightly when trying to learn a complex instrument without personal instruction. Other than live human beings, most of the best resources on the subject will take advantage of written notation.

[Leeate]

Check out the San Antonio piano lessons:
http://users.wireweb.net/green/

[lotus2035]

If I understand the question and answers, there is some confusion between reading music and music theory.
I know a certain amount of music theory, and can't read a note. More to the point, Wes Montgomery didn't read music worth a hoot, he just listened and worked things out. That doesn't mean that he didn't understand the theory of what he was working on. Of course, reading music is the most efficient way of communicating musical information, including music theory, but the two are not one and the same. You can learn music theory without reading notation.

thanks for the comments guys...
yes, I suppose I should have worded the title a bit better...
I am aware of quite a number of aspects of music theory already and assumed that if you learn the piano and how to read music that there would naturally have to be some work in terms of chord progressions and modes and all this other stuff that I dont know too much about...
but in the original post at least I was simply looking for a shortcut to piano playing without all the theory, notation or otherwise...(Ive changed my mind since though!)

[lotus2035]

Check out the San Antonio piano lessons:
http://users.wireweb.net/green/

thanks..will check it out..