Good MIDI Keyboard Controller in the 100-200 US Range?

[newbie_here]

Hello.

I guess time has come for my next investment in audio gear.
So a keyboard it is.

The problem being, I have no idea about brands, and to be honest there is just too much out there. (But since most I have seen is M-Audio's, that's what Ill be using in the next paragraph).

Also Im a bit confused as to why some things like the M-Audio OXYGEN8 is way cheaper than the M-Audio AXIOM 25, both having just 25 keys.
Or the fact the M-Audio AXIOM 25 is almost as expensive as the M-Audio OXYGEN 61, and why, if the 61' has more keys?

So I think it has to do with the knobs, the LCDs? (I see some of the Keystation models lack them).

And the main problem is that I dont know much about music theory So this means, when I hear about "octaves" I dont know what is that, so Im not sure if a small keyboard will do, or if a 25-keys one is crappy and I wont be able to obtain or create the same sounds that I would be able to with a 88-keys one and stuff like that.

So maybe some of you could help me out with experiences on keyboards in that price range, and how some features in given keyboards like knobs or LCD screens are important or not.

And the most important of all, if 25 keys is "not enough" or is good for starters but I should keep my hopes low, or I mean, if overall less keys the crappier?

I need it USB btw, I dont have MIDI I/O on my Toneport and I wont be adding any new interfaces.

What for? A sequencer, so basically electronic music; maybe for a guitar VST (maybe RealGuitar since I saw that video of the guy playing some flamenco-ish song in a keyboard ) and likely a drum VST like EZdrummer.

Thanks for your time

[bambooman]

hi!

well i had the oxygen and now use the axiom.

both are okay for making music,
except that the axiom has alot of extras/advantages
compared to the oxygen keyboard.

on the other hand you need to know what you
want, which you like better, and which one
you could afford to get period.

the most advantages of the axiom are:

+ keys with aftertouch
+ semi weighted keys
+ a good adcanced feature display
+ 8x trigger pads - good for drums and beats
+ adavanced features (like saving knob-presets)
which you can store with the free m-audio software
+ you can connect both, a sustain pedal and a expression pedal
(if you need that feature)
+ the axiom looks better
+ the quality of the display, knobs, and keys are a bit better

either way, both are good for music stuff
not everybody needs all these extra features.
*hint* (some features are just extra gimmicks)

if you can afford the axiom get the axiom,
but if you can't - then get the oxygen


cheers, Jim

[newbie_here]

Hey Jim.
Thanks a lot for your reply!

Well, I never looked at the Axiom before to be honest (in M-Audio's midi controller page its listed as a step up the ladder than the oxygen series and it seems out of my budget >$200), but your kind of review made me look at it in detail and jesus... that keyboard is beautiful.

And basically

+ 8x trigger pads - good for drums and beats

Did it for me. Excellent... to be sincere I checked some little drum thingies in the past and I had the hope to get one, yeah, the pads are probably not the same thing but god they are nice!!!

I have a few questions though.

"+ semi weighted keys"
This means cheaper series, like oxygen, have light-weight keys or something? And semi-weighted is going to feel nicer? (Less plastic-ish perhaps?).

Also, it has a button to +/- octaves right? Like to achieve higuer/lower pitch notes?
So if I wanna try a little bass I can work it out? (or then why someone said in "the other" topic that 49 wasnt so good for bass/lead sounds?).

Now it comes out I checked the Axiom 25 and 49. Apart form obvious differences, the 49 has sliders!
Are these sliders great for some purposes or basically one could easily live without them?
I see it has more buttons etc... but essentially I think the main difference in regards of features are those sliders.

Now, the 25 is like $170 while the 49 is around $220

So the question being, are 25 keys enough?
In the "other topic", people say 49 is great... so 25 is crap perhaps?

I mean, yes, Im a beginner, but that doesnt mean Im gonna waste lets say 150 when I can put 50 or 60 bucks more and then I wont have to worry about upgrades in the next years, do you know what I mean?

Also, even if you dont have the experience with it, would you say the Axiom 49 is better than the E-MU Xboard 49?

Thanks a lot for your time :):)

[morphex]

Regardless of which keyboard controller you decide to get, if you have the desktop space, go for a 49-key controller. You'll enjoy the extra keys when you're playing a VSTi such as a piano type plug-in. But if you don't plan on playing many chords, a 25-key unit should fit comfortably on your desktop. One other thing to consider though, If you think you will ever play a live show, I can tell you from experience that trying to play a 25-key controller is almost as difficult as it is to keep it attached to the stand it's on...I had to end up using duct tape to keep my 25-key controller from constantly falling of the keyboard stand I was using at the time. That was the first and last time I ever made that stupid mistake.

Peace - morphex

[glokraw]

Hello.

I guess time has come for my next investment in audio gear.
So a keyboard it is.

The problem being, I have no idea about brands, and to be honest there is just too much out there. (But since most I have seen is M-Audio's, that's what Ill be using in the next paragraph).

Also Im a bit confused as to why some things like the M-Audio OXYGEN8 is way cheaper than the M-Audio AXIOM 25, both having just 25 keys.
Or the fact the M-Audio AXIOM 25 is almost as expensive as the M-Audio OXYGEN 61, and why, if the 61' has more keys?

So I think it has to do with the knobs, the LCDs? (I see some of the Keystation models lack them).

And the main problem is that I dont know much about music theory So this means, when I hear about "octaves" I dont know what is that, so Im not sure if a small keyboard will do, or if a 25-keys one is crappy and I wont be able to obtain or create the same sounds that I would be able to with a 88-keys one and stuff like that.

So maybe some of you could help me out with experiences on keyboards in that price range, and how some features in given keyboards like knobs or LCD screens are important or not.

And the most important of all, if 25 keys is "not enough" or is good for starters but I should keep my hopes low, or I mean, if overall less keys the crappier?

I need it USB btw, I dont have MIDI I/O on my Toneport and I wont be adding any new interfaces.

What for? A sequencer, so basically electronic music; maybe for a guitar VST (maybe RealGuitar since I saw that video of the guy playing some flamenco-ish song in a keyboard ) and likely a drum VST like EZdrummer.

Thanks for your time

I would first install the free asio4all, and minihost (by tobybear) on your computer, and the free softsynths ultrasonique, and superwaveP8, and get the idea of playing the onscreen keyboard, utilizing presets, and modifying the sounds, getting to see how your head wraps around the newness of it all (those synths have some great sounds, too!) Then,
make sure via google that your computer is fast enough for the synth-software combo decide get...most midi controllers only play sounds from software on your computer, so it will need usb 2.0 ports, hard-disk space for the software, and cpu/memory/OS capable for your choices...

e-mu xboard has a powerful soft-synth bundle, and fine hardware, but requires careful installation, a forum at

http://www.productionforums.com/viewforum.php?f=42


has the answers.....also each 'Computer Music' magazine has a raft of excellent free synths, with website and forums to match...
I would use such rescources for a month, save and spend the extra $50-$70 and go with e-mu xboard61, or competing 61-key from maudio, alesis or? hope this helps

[newbie_here]

Oh thanks you both, sorry morphex hadnt read your reply

Good advice, Ill have it in mind.

[bobsled]

Having only 25 keys used to drive me nuts sometimes. In retrospect, having 49 keys (as I do now) from the beginning would have made learning to actually play happen much faster. Gotta have both hands on the keyboard, ya know? 49 keys is a safe minimum imho.

btw sliders and knobs are fantastic. Aftertouch, at least 8 knobs and sliders, program change, maybe an xy pad or xyz controller. They are to your keyboard what an automation track is to a sequencer. If you wanna play live and modulate your sound, get you some knobs/sliders.

Is this a good place to mention the CME UF5's upcoming hardware update? If interested, check out the CME forum @ http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/viewthread ... a=page%3D1 for more info on this great $200 (UF5) keyboard controller.

Lots of good advice in this thread. Like

*hint* (some features are just extra gimmicks)

[newbie_here]

Well Im heading for 49 keys. In fact lets make it my standard.

I was heading towards the Axiom 49, but bad reviews got me thinking about it..

The CME UF5 seems cool but it doesnt have touchpads (I want those!), and thanks to your link (and if I understood correctly), I either wait for 2 or 3 months (cant really hold myself that much Im afraid) for the hardware update (because I dont live in the US/UK so this is going to be shipped by amazon across the ocean and after I have it in my hands there is no turning back, no service center, no guarantee, but Im used to it), or I get it now and basically in a year when I switch to Vista 64 then it will be unusable since it has no vista support.

There is another kid in the hood, the Edirol PCR-500, has touchpads and I think it looks nice, but its too expensive... and I havent read any reviews about that one so wouldnt know if jumping on the train like that (100 bucks over my price range!!).

[Jim Roseberry]

Well Im heading for 49 keys. In fact lets make it my standard.

I was heading towards the Axiom 49, but bad reviews got me thinking about it..

The CME UF5 seems cool but it doesnt have touchpads (I want those!), and thanks to your link (and if I understood correctly), I either wait for 2 or 3 months (cant really hold myself that much Im afraid) for the hardware update (because I dont live in the US/UK so this is going to be shipped by amazon across the ocean and after I have it in my hands there is no turning back, no service center, no guarantee, but Im used to it), or I get it now and basically in a year when I switch to Vista 64 then it will be unusable since it has no vista support.

There is another kid in the hood, the Edirol PCR-500, has touchpads and I think it looks nice, but its too expensive... and I havent read any reviews about that one so wouldnt know if jumping on the train like that (100 bucks over my price range!!).

I had a CME VX7 controller... and the OS was full of bugs/issues.
ie: Set the keyboard to transmit on MIDI channel 1 and the VX OS decides that Aftertouch will be sent on MIDI channel 2 (no matter what setting/s you've chosen). Talked to tech support... and they said it was 'normal' behavior. LOL!
I really wanted to like the VX7... but I just couldn't live with the bugs for $900.

If you're looking at the PCR series, I have a like-new (hardly ever played) PCR-800 that I'm wanting to sell. It's a pretty decent controller for $200.

From what you decribe, I'd checkout the PCR series. IMO, At that price point, they're the best quality MIDI controller.

[Uncle E]

It seems to me that a newbie should probably get as many keys as possible to make it easier to experiment with ranges. Knobs, sliders, drum pads, & good key action will likely become desirable factors later but even a simple Keystation 49e ought to be good for starting out.

[Ichigo Kurosaki]

I have a E-Mu Xboard 49 ($169), and I'm in love. The keys feel great, and I'm already learning to play difficult anime songs! You can also use bothe hands on most songs! Transpose is awesome to! Many says the Xboard is better than the Axiom.Plus it's silver!

My first time ever playing piano, and I learn quickly (my father used to play guitar for a band long ago), possibly genes, and the fact that I am a computer guru, and we know how things works (tic, tic, tic, tic [a la Sylar])!

Start with 49, learn the key and learn music theory, then move up to a higher set of keys, and when you do so, keep the 49 one, as most people loves having more than one keyboard no matter how many keys!

[sylva]

Hello everyone!

Excellent and informative discussion. I too am looking for a controller. Anyone have used these? I know, Jim Roseberry had a PCR-800 and just as I wanted to buy it he issued a Bump message. Such is luck. From the three I would probably be inclined to buy the PCR-800. In my case this would be the very bottom since I play the piano.

As an input to what you newbe_here want I'd just utter that it would be well if you took at least one course in music theory and one or two in electronics just to get a bit (or more) versed in digital theory. I am not saying it's mandatory for the electronic musician to know electricity/electronics, however the interpretation of wave forms helps quite a bit in understanding the relationship between the sounds and the wave forms that represent them. If you're just gigging this probably takes a backseat, but if you're recording matters change since when more advanced one tends to want to manipulate, and experiment with, the sounds. Now I am saying all this without knowing anything about your knowledge, so if I (over)stated the obvious, my apologies.

John.

[Uncle E]

John, we have an original PCR-80, new in box, for $140. It's missing a lot of cool features of the 800 but might be worth considering for the price. Still, seeing as you're a piano player, I'm surprised you're not considering the M-Audio Keystation-pro88 or Keystation 61es, given their better, semi-weighted actions.

[sylva]

Eric,

I have a digital piano with grand sound, but it's missing the many features of modern controllers. My purpose is composition, so I don't really need the keyboard for its instrumental prowess. In other words I need heavy sound manipulation more than instrumentality. I will not be using it for live situations. I need technical sophistication. The M-Audio-Pro88 seemed to be the choice but it's too expensive for now and I see lots of iffy comments by users on forum and dealership pages. Piano players say its keys are not weighted enough, but this I don't need since my piano is weighted. However they raise technical problems such as programming and MIDI channeling, poor velocity, stuck or late keys and in general QC issues. My main problem is that even though I live in a large metropolitan area, large enough dealerships that carry variety of choices are few and far between. Therefore I have to rely on comments by those who have experienced the particular gear of interest.

Thanks for your input, John.