CME UF8 USB/MIDI Master Controller Keyboard - USB Issues

[steveecrane]

Folks,

I'm having near-constant problems with my CME UF8 master keyboard and the USB port.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated:

The v1.0.5 driver is MUCH-improved - the timing and hanging notes issues are better (but still not quite perfect, IMHO) - and the MIDI outs still seem to work just fine, as ever; however ...

... if I'm using it via its USB port (my preferred method, for a whole host of reasons - no pun intended) should I leave the keyboard unattended for more than, say, an hour, I have to reboot my ASIO host (either Cubase SX3, Steinberg's VStack v2, most standalone plug-in apps or Hermann Seib's SAVIHost v1.30.0.1) as it seems the Windows XP Pro hardware driver has 'lost' sight of the keyboard!

The keyboard is still present in the Windows "Device Manager" ... and the keyboard itself does not (often/always) require a power cycle to resume; all that's required is exiting and re-opening the host app!

This is tolerable in the studio (well, broadly acceptable for now); unfortunately, it's absolutely shite on-stage as there can often be an hour or so between setting up and playing! It's not even the nuisance value ... I just don't wanna look a complete d!<k in front of all my admiring fans

Please help if you can ...

[bobsled]

There are, unfortunately, many posts about this over at the CME forum. ( http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/index.php )

With the the UF8 it seems you either do or don't have this problem and no one is quite sure why. Sorry, wish I could be of more help. Maybe the upcoming hardware upgrade will solve your problem?

Yes, your controller should have been working flawlessly to begin with, but that hardware update looks pretty tasty to me (and my UF5).

[Meffy]

My UF6 does the same thing, or near enough as makes no difference. My workaround is to use plain MIDI cables but that sacrifices some functionality I'd like to have back.

[steveecrane]

Sorry, bobsled, but what hardware upgrade ?

I'm unsure to what you are referring !

[bobsled]

http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/viewthread ... a=page%3D1

#1. This is a hardware update. Not a ROM replacement. The mainboard of the old UF gets replaced with a UFv2 mainboard.

#2. The UFv2 mainboard is a USB class compliant device and will require no driver install on Macs and PCs.

#3. The UFv2 has a flash ROM, it will be updatable with new firmware and settings over USB.

#4. The UFv2's firmware is quite different, the function of many of the buttons on the face of the keyboards will change. This will require an overlay or just use a Brother P-Touch.

#5. In normal mode, transport commands send CC messages (CC115, CC116, etc.) over both USB and MIDI. MIDI Beat Clock and MMC commands have been removed.

#6. Some U-Ctrl features from the VX line are being implemented. Not all of them, there aren't enough buttons and faders, but several important functions.

#9. There are 9 default Velocity Curves where the old UF had 4.

#8. There are about 10 memory locations for saving your UF setups called Registration Banks.

Quite tasty indeed. If I don't choke on the price, whatever that may be. btw I haven't been holding my breath on this one. Due maybe this fall?

[steveecrane]

Thanks, bobsled.

Any ideas on why CME are (supposed to be) releasing this?

I can see some new features and additional functionality - which is all well and good - but no acknowledgement of 'fault' or 'failure' on their part for past mistakes with the originally installed technology.

Is this a guarded admission by CME that the v1 main-board does not actually do all it was supposed to, namely work correctly with the USB interface?

Not wishing to sound unduly negative, but here are some of the most common problems I still encounter daily, despite the driver upgrade (and which are confirmed as fairly common for many individuals after a couple of nights trawling the CME and other forums):-

• 1) Missing notes in trills ... even my fast ones are limited by my technique, so they're not even that fast. Arpeggios are losing notes too;

• 2) 'Weird' dynamics (regardless - and quite independent - of the 3 user-settings on the keyboard itself) which are more obvious at the extremities of low and high velocities. Often, softly-played notes just don't 'play' at all ... and this disconcerting failure appears somewhat random. (This is something which goes down very well live with the punters during a rendition of anything requiring exposed piano and vocals, I can tell you!);

• 3) But, by far the biggest problem of all: after a random time period, the computer-keyboard combination simply stop responding, quite independent of which computer (and which music application) I have the UF8 connected to, when using its USB port.

Whether it's a desktop or laptop, whether on USB power or via the supplied PSU (which is actually permanently connected - I simply tried it without to rule it out of the equation), and irrespective of which application I'm actually using at the time, it just stops sending out any data, let alone any note on-off data. (To be honest, it may actually be that the CME driver on the PC is 'timing out' and not actually processing any received data, I've not yet checked this).

Please don't get me wrong, the v1.05 driver is much-improved over v1.04 and the MIDI out still seems to work just fine (though I simply cannot use this live as I do not take my MotU MIDI Express (parallel port) interface out with me as my laptop does not have a parallel port, only USB and FireWire!); however ...

... when I'm using the UF8 via its USB port (my preferred method, for a whole host of reasons - no pun intended) should I leave the keyboard unattended for more than, say, 30 minutes, I have to reboot whichever VST host I'm using because the Windows XP Pro hardware driver is not communicating with the UF8 at all!

(As I hinted previously, this affects Cubase SX3, Steinberg's VStack v2, and all my standalone plug-ins - including the Arturia "Jupiter-8V" and NI's Kompakt player for my EWQLSO Silver - as well as Hermann Seib's "SAVIHost" with myriad plug-ins of differing types employed. In other words, even some well-respected, commercial-grade VSTi's are indicating the same issues, the common element of which is the UF8).

Furthermore, all of the problems are repeatable on the following Windows XP-based platforms (3 XP Pro, 2 'Home Edition'): my 'live' Toshiba Satellite Pro laptop, my DAW-specific ASUS-based PC, a 'spare' old USB v1.1 Compaq I have, my wife's Acer Aspire 3003LC laptop and a friend's entry level Carillon, using a whole host (no pun intended) of music software! That is, the only 'common' element in all of this is the UF8, I'm afraid!

If I employ my trusty 17-year old Roland D-70 via 1980's MIDI technology, I genuinely have NO problems whatsoever - never did! Problem is, it's getting on and will undoubtedly require replacing at some point - it already needs a service for the LCD's back-light (which will cost almost as much as the UF8 itself once shipping is added into the equation) whilst this and my MotU MIDI interface require new main-board batteries!

A few 'drop-outs' are tolerable at home (well, broadly acceptable for now - given I've paid for the darned thing, I may as well use it!); unfortunately, it's absolutely unacceptable on-stage: I simply have no choice but to close and re-open everything (and pray) just before the opening number ... or, at least, I did: my UF8 is now consigned to the home studio after a rather embarrassing performance last Saturday!

The damned thing would've been hurled across the bar had it not been for the fact that, i) it's too darned heavy; ii) the landlord was a big, mean, ugly looking guy who hadn't yet paid us; iii) I didn't have my faithful D-70 with me to replace it! My band mates got the brunt of my frustration ... so now the UF8 is sat at home and does not leave the house! And nor will it, unless it's to be returned, replaced or repaired!

So, I'll end as I began: is this upgrade actually a retrofit to deliver on the promised capabilities of an "Omnipotent Keyboard Controller"(!!!) ... but one which CME unfortunately intend to charge it's customers for?

[bobsled]

is this upgrade actually a retrofit to deliver on the promised capabilities of an "Omnipotent Keyboard Controller"(!!!) ... but one which CME unfortunately intend to charge it's customers for?

If I were having problems with my UF5 (I'm not) I'd feel the same way. Sucks about your gig, bro.

[bigwayne56]

Just a thought but Windows automatically will power down the USB prots on your machine now matter how you have the Power saving scheme set. Just for giggles, try going into device manager. Right click on all your USB hubs and ports and look for a tab that says either resources or Power management, (its something like that I am going by memory here...) . You'll know when you find the right one. You will see a check box with "Allow windows to power down this device to save power" or something to that effect. Uncheck that box reboot your machine and see if that helps.

I know that a lot of my clients that used USB based wireless NICs had similar problems and this fix almost %100 of their issues.

Hope it helps,

Wayne

[ew]

Yep, bigwayne56's solution works for most USB issues. It's the first thing I have people do...

ew

[bobsled]

bigwayne56, I checked (just for grins) Power management and every box is checked "Allow". Strange. No probs with my board. Will file your tip anyway, as I'm sure it will help down the road (and may yet solve the OP's problem).

There is another UF thread happening here, http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2631106 , which suggests

peakdesign wrote
"...if you do lose the connection, disable then re-enable the driver in the Device Manager so you don't have to reboot."

[steveecrane]

Sorry, that was one of the first things I tried!

Cheers, though!

[peakdesign]

In my case, if the PC goes to sleep, my DAW often crashes and the CME driver is probably the cause. After this, only if I stop and restart the driver from device manager, can I avoid rebooting. It sounds like your systems are set to auto-sleep, most are. The driver apparently cannot handle the complex steps involved. Maybe try to turn off all forms of power-saving? From the real frustration you describe I can't fathom why you don't just get a little $30 MIDI interface and use the UF8 that way. As to the promised fix, first of all, CME have not exactly been timely in their updates, I'll believe it when I see it. Secondly replacing the whole mainboard seems a little drastic, since it's a pain to dismantle the keyboard. We'll see. For now I'm managing, in USB mode. The 1.05 compatible templates work fine with Logic and Steinberg, I have not tried the others. If I were having your headaches, I'd stick to MIDI mode, the keyboard itself is a gem.

Using the included beta "mapper" program in either MIDI or USB mode allows you to modify a number of parameters, it might work well for you, just remember to start it each time before you start the DAW (you can write a little command line script to start them in order, just list the programs (with complete path) on separate lines, and save as a .CMD file.)

[UltraJv]

Im not familiar with the CME but isnt this a case of bin it and buy something else that works? It seems that its not going to be solved any time soon. Any money spent by yourself upgrading thier faulty product is madness. Yes you will lose out financially but meanwhile you can fight with the company while using another product from someone else.

[zai]

To my knowledge, their "newer" products are class compliant. Meaning that you don't need any drivers...is that a good thing? Not sure...I'm eager waiting for my VX7...fingers crossed.

Zai

[peakdesign]

Yeah, class compliance is a good thing.

As to UltraJv's remark, no, no, it's not "binned" by any means, the UF8 is by far my fave keyboard though I have several, including an Edirol, an M-Audio, a Fatar/StudioLogic, not to speak of drum pads, WX7, GC10, and hardware synths. In the studio, nothing is perfect, everything is ... interactive. I think you can either be realistic and work with the stuff, understand shortcomings, and work around limitations, or you gonna be feeling road rage while chasing rainbows. A lot of problems with drivers are interactions where it's hard to pin the issue down, UltraJV, it's not as simple as "faulty". We're trying to work together here to better understand what precisely is happening, because it works fine for many people, and we evidently all love the UF8.

If they do offer a truly better mainboard for it, and it doesn't cost a fortune, I'll put it in.