East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra & Kontakt

[steveecrane]

Folks,

I have East West Quantum Leap's Symphonic Orchestra (EWQLSO) Silver Edition which uses the cut-down Native Instrument's "Kontakt" player, namely "Kompakt".

I am NOT a big user of samples, preferring either 'proper' synthesis techniques or S&S for my MIDI instruments; however, I'm getting to the point where I cannot ignore the use of loops as I am working more-and-more with other user's material.

Yeah, I know, I'm a laggard!

As such, I was thinking of simply upgrading Kompakt to the NI Kontakt player, their fully-fledged sampler, because then I can continue to use the orchestral instruments without re-investing elsewhere (they really do sound GOOD)!

I'd be interested in your comments as to what to look for in a DAW-based sampler. I've read SoS on this matter and it seems to come down to a choice between:

• Steinberg's "Halion" (I'd be interested if there's any integration between Halion and Cubase SX);
  Tascam's "Gigasampler"; and
  The aforementioned Native Instruments' "Kompakt".

If I'm honest, I'll probably be employing other user's loops and sample libraries predominantly (none of which will be for synth-based instruments - they'll remain VSTi's or external to the DAW) rather than creating and editing my own samples.

As a consequence, apart from stability/reliability in operation and ease of use (this is a REAL biggy for me - I don't like technology to get in the way of music-making simply because there's one really quite clever developer's widget inside the software which I'll probably never use!) the most important issue for me seems to be the ability to read samples created in as many different formats as possible, preserving as much of the sample's metadata as possible (rather than just being able to read the 'sounds', per se). As such, I was hoping to be able to read: Halion, Akai, Emu, Roland, Kurzweil, Gigasampler, Kontakt, EXS24, Sound Font 2, as well as the ubiquitous WAV, AIFF and REX/REX2 formatted samples.

Any pros/cons, things to watch out for, hidden costs, or any sensible suggestions/advice genuinely welcomed.

Cheers ...


PS If it helps, here's the hardware which goes to make up the DAW set-up for my project studio, just so you guys know what may/may not be possible with my current gear(!):-

Sequencer/Host:
Steinberg Cubase SX 3.1
Steinberg V-Stack v1.2

running on an:

ASUS PC400E-Deluxe motherboard-based desktop computer, running fully-patched Microsoft Windows XP Pro SP2, with Intel Pentium 4 "Prescott" 3.0GHz CPU (HyperThreading enabled), 2 x Micron 1GB PC2700 memory plus 2 x Kingston 512MB PC3200 memory, 2 x SATA raptor 10,000RPM 36GB drives, 1 x Maxtor SATA 200GB hard-disk, 1 x Western Digital PATA 400GB hard-disk, 19" VideoSeven flat-panel monitor analogue-attached via nVIDIA GeForce FX 5700LE (128MB) graphics card.

DA/AD Conversion:
RME Hammerfall 9636/52 PCI card with AE8-I daughter-board (ADAT connected to Behringer ADA8000).
M-Audio FireWire 410 (IEEE1394a FireWire-400).

MIDI Controllers:
CME UF-8 weighted keyboard (USB).
Behringer BCR2000 rotary control surface (USB).
Behringer BCF2000 fader control surface (USB).
PreSonus Fader Port DAW channel controller (USB).
Korg MS-20 mini-controller - part of the Legacy Collection plug-ins (USB).
MotU MIDI Express XT 8-port interface (parallel port).

Effects Plug-Ins (VSTi's):-

Universal Audio UAD-1
Project Pak with Neve 1073 EQ, Neve 1081 EQ, Fairchild 670 compressor, LA2A limiter, Dreamverb reverb, Plate 140 reverb.

Celemony
Melodyne pitch shifter.

Instrument Plug-Ins (VSTi's):-

Korg (KLC-AE07, KLC-DE, WaveStation):
1) Korg Legacy (MS-20 with hardware mini-controller).
2) Korg Legacy (Korg Mono/Poly).
3) Korg Legacy (Korg PolySix).
4) Korg Legacy Digital Edition (Korg M1).
5) Korg Legacy Digital Edition (Korg WaveStation).

East West Quantum Leap (EWQLSO):
Symphonic Orchestra Silver Edition.

Arturia:
Jupiter-8V.

Waldorf (Steinberg-branded):
PPG Wave 2.V.
Attack.
D-Pole.

MusicLab:
RealGuitar 2.1L.

GForce:
impOSCar.

Soundfonts:
ORGANized Trio v3.1 Hammond organ.

Green Oak:
Crystal.

ArtVera:
Golden Aset.

[Yossarian]

I think you have the right idea going with Kontakt 2. Conversion between different softsamplers works fairly well for most formats except Kontakt 2 and GS3 which have features like scripting and convolution. Libraries using these features (and these are arguably the most playable and expressive ones) can really only be played properly by the sampler they were created for.

Most soundware developers that provide sample libraries (as opposed to locking the samples to a bundled player VSTi) seem to lean more towards Kontakt 2 than GS3 so that would be my choice if I had to choose one. If you find that there's some GS3-only library that you can't live without (the Larry Seyer Acoustic Drums actually made me get GS3 Solo ) you can always get GVI later.

/Yoss

[jeffn1]

I think Kontakt 2 is the way to go. Primarily because the best sample libraries are being made for it (although the top end are coming out with thier own proprietary players).

One big consideration with a softsampler is the technology that more easily allows you to use the huge number of articulations in a way that achieves a mroe realistic sound.

Kontakt's multis and other scripting features are very important in my book. They allow more realtime control of the sample libraries. In addition, the scripts for Kontakt 2 allow more realistic pedal resonance for piano, more realistic legato playing for strings, etc.

jeffn1

[steveecrane]

Bobby,

Thanks for taking the time out to respond ... I was coming to somewhat similar conclusions about ultimately investing in a separate machine for a software-based sampler as it was; however, I'm genuinely interested in your real-world experience of (32-bit) Windows XP platforms with 4GB RAM, regardless of any future Kontakt 2 acquisition!

Please, let me explain: I've been trying for some time to understand the consequences of a MoBo which can host 4GB RAM coupled to an O/S which may/may not recognise such quantities of RAM and applications which may/may not be capable of employing it.

I wrote a question posted on the "Sound on Sound" magazine's forums only last week to try to resolve my long-outstanding quandary ... but, as of yet, no one seems able/willing to help on such an arcane subject (I don't blame 'em really, so I shall cut'n'paste it onto the KVR forums - almost in its entirety - to stimulate discussion here too). A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing!

For those who are interested, it was originally pasted here on the SoS forums:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... 729&fpart=

As a simple musician (albeit one who used to work as an IT Ops & Comms guy a mere 17 years ago!) all I really want to know is:

"Should I install 4GB in my Windows XP Pro PC or remain with 2 or 3GB?"

The why's and wherefore's of what I actually have to do to successfully 'enable' this memory and coax programs to make use of it - as well as which apps may be able to take advantage of it - are quite secondary to this. Nevertheless - and all-too-often, for my liking - the developers, manufacturers, distributors and retailers seem to think we're interested in technology per se ... and not music-making!

I know that memory is relatively cheap these days, so it could be construed as a moot point; however, I wouldn't go outside and chuck £40 onto the pavement, so I won't chuck it away inside my PC either on the basis of hearsay, speculation and the 'suck it and see' approach to PC design!

Whilst I'm fairly certain I understand the issue(s) surrounding streaming from disks versus samples in memory - quite apart from the obvious stuff - I'm actually prepared to relocate one of my DAW's 36GB Western Digital Raptor 10,000RPM disks to a new 'sampling PC' should the need arise ... however, I'm yet to be convinced that a single instance of ANY application has full, unrestricted access to anything over and above 2GB memory.

I've read the MS Support, TechNet and Development websites, various Music Tech Forums and my MoBo config info - and just about as much other information as I can get my head around, to be honest including, but not limited to, PAE under Windows XP, /3GB and /USERVA switches for the Boot.ini file, the Asus P4C800-E Deluxe motherboard's physical/logical capabilities - and I'm unconvinced that anything above 3GB is of any benefit whatsoever.

Nevertheless, I'd be keen to hear your opinion on this - and thank you for your comments thus far ...


I've cut'n'pasted your original "Private Message" here as there was nothing overtly 'sensitive' in it and I think others could benefit, plus it helps make some sense of my ramblings above too :-

"For the six machines we used to do the rough score for Stealth, we used 10,000 RPM drives for a striped RAID (RAID 0), 2GB RAM, AMD FX-55, and Kontakt 2 as the host for Quantum Leap

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/mus ... tealth.htm

The P4 should be fine. Your limiting factor will be RAM (and therefore disk streaming efficiency), not CPU. That's why we had the super fast RAIDs going.

However, if I were re-building those machines today, I'd use Athlon 64 X2 or Pentium D chips (both very inexpensive, and quite fast), use 4GB of RAM and run the machines with Vista or 64-bit XP so I could get to more RAM. Also, a normal 7200 RPM stripe would probably be fine.

It's better to use one machine for sequencing and one for the orchestral stuff. I recently built a machine for a composer who worked primarily in Pro Tools on Macintosh by customizing a P4 box from Shuttle.com. Since the NI stuff looks the same on both platforms, he had no problems going back and forth. For his machine, we used Steinberg V-Stack to host multiple Kompakt players.

Best,

.:bobby/nonplus"

[xistential]

I run the /3GB switch in XP on 3GB ECC RAM and I can load up more samples. That's about the only real benefit I can think of. Only real problems I have had is trying to run games or other things, but no problem with that just remove the switch and reboot. As far as 4 GB I agree I can't see how that would be useful. We have some 32 bit servers with 4 gb at work, but that has to do with the design of the motherboard. Also an app like SQL or Exchange has to be specifically hacked and tuned to utilize the extra RAM.

[zircon]

As a simple musician (albeit one who used to work as an IT Ops & Comms guy a mere 17 years ago!) all I really want to know is:

"Should I install 4GB in my Windows XP Pro PC or remain with 2 or 3GB?" Help

What was your conclusion?

[steveecrane]

Zircon,

I'll let you know when I've sussed it!

[metamorphosis]

http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm

[peakdesign]

Steve,
There IS an advantage to 4GB over 3GB. Cubase 3.x can work with the /3GB switch. With 2 GB you end up getting corrupted Cubase projects above 1.5 GB or so. With 3 GB of RAM you use the /3GB switch but that leaves too little memory in the 1GB for the OS and memory-mapped cards. At 4 GB you finally are able to create Cubase projects up to and a little over 2GB. It may seem like you should get more out of doubling the RAM, but that's all she wrote at 32 bits, and it's still useful. You can ReWire add-ons to run in that left-over RAM. Then if you use Teleport over a Gigabit LAN you can use a second (cheaper) machine to just load VSTs, like Kontakt & samples, on. It takes a little money and tweaking, but you effectively get over 4GB projects and a distributed CPU load without waiting for 64 bit everything with quad CPUs.