So I'm about to take the plunge in the FM world. Being a child of the 80s I'm very familiar with the DX7 sound and I have a basic understanding of FM synthesis.
I'm into synthesis, not patches that sound like other instruments, and I enjoy building sounds from the ground up.
I've noticed you can get a Yamaha TX802 pretty cheap on eBay, and higher end synths like the TG-77 and FS1R are still under $500. If I bought one I'd use my computer as a sequencer and to program the synth.
The FM8 softsynth has been getting rave reviews and sells for the same price as hardware.
So my question is, since FM is pure digital is it still worth it to get a FS1R in light of great software like the FM8? The workflow of FM8 is obviously better than the hardware with a software editor, but are the sound capabilities and quality better?
Hardware FM or FM8 softsynth?
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- KVRAF
- 1743 posts since 3 Dec, 2004
Have you tried the (free) demo?
http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... us&flash=9
http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... us&flash=9
my sig will go here
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- KVRAF
- 2208 posts since 13 May, 2005
There are several threads concerning this topic. I'd definitely get a hardware synth, sounds MUCH better. A TG-77 is a great option (sold mine, bought it again).
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- KVRist
- 274 posts since 24 Nov, 2006
FS1R probably, tho the Zeroscillator VCO module sounds even more interesting, very pricey, and you would need some additional modules.
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- KVRAF
- 2208 posts since 13 May, 2005
Wow, the Zeroscillator thing sounds great!
Still, you could fill a rack with TG-77s for what it costs...
Still, you could fill a rack with TG-77s for what it costs...
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- KVRAF
- 9220 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from Pequot Lakes, MN
The FS1R's a completely different beast, as was pointed out in your HCF thread.
If you want AWM or the FS1R's formant filter, you'll have to go hardware. Otherwise, FM8's the logical choice.
ew
If you want AWM or the FS1R's formant filter, you'll have to go hardware. Otherwise, FM8's the logical choice.
ew
A spectral heretic...
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- KVRer
- 9 posts since 11 Oct, 2001 from San Francisco, CA
Ok, so I have the NI FM7 and a Yamaha TX816. I almost sold the TX816 due to the "FM7 does this, why keep this" syndrome. Well, my laptop died and I bought a new one. Since Apple changed processors, none of my old software was compatible. The upgrade costs money to FM8 which I could careless about having. I just wanted FM7 to work.
So to make a long story short, the TX816 doesn't need upgrades. It works. The only thing that it ever needs upgraded is a new internal battery for the memory. I am no advocate over which sounds better, but they do sound different. Software sounds cleaner and more pristine where the hardware has that old dirt to it. Harware is clunkier to program where software is streamlined and easier.
So to make a long story short, the TX816 doesn't need upgrades. It works. The only thing that it ever needs upgraded is a new internal battery for the memory. I am no advocate over which sounds better, but they do sound different. Software sounds cleaner and more pristine where the hardware has that old dirt to it. Harware is clunkier to program where software is streamlined and easier.
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- Banned
- 527 posts since 28 Sep, 2004
When it comes to FM, I'm a geek. But I'm more of an oldskool FM geek. Even though it can be synthesized very easily (it is a primarily digital synthesis, after all), I'm a firm believer in hardware. Whatever choice you have, if there's a hardware option, go hardware. BTW, I'm not sure what kind of music you're going to be using it for, but did you ever consider getting one of these?
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- KVRAF
- 3032 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Central NY
If I had to choose one over the other it would definitely
be hardware. I've got a TG77, TX802, a couple of TX7's
a TX81Z and a DX21. The hardware just has a more immediate
in-your-face ballsy grittiness to it. That being said,
FM8 is also very cool and has some nice tricks up its
sleeve. I like it very much...in the studio. I just can't
see bringing a laptop to a sweaty, smoky, boozy club.
Cheers.....CL
be hardware. I've got a TG77, TX802, a couple of TX7's
a TX81Z and a DX21. The hardware just has a more immediate
in-your-face ballsy grittiness to it. That being said,
FM8 is also very cool and has some nice tricks up its
sleeve. I like it very much...in the studio. I just can't
see bringing a laptop to a sweaty, smoky, boozy club.
Cheers.....CL
the secrets to old age: Faster horses, Richer Women, Bigger CPU's
https://soundcloud.com/cristofe-chabot/sets/main
https://soundcloud.com/cristofe-chabot/sets/main
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- KVRian
- 754 posts since 22 Aug, 2002 from on the inside looking out
The hardware synthesizers you've mentioned are all a complete pig to program so you'll need to get additional software tools if you intend making your own patches. My first ever synth was a yamaha dx21 and I spent years learning to program it from its itty-bitty lcd so I'm very comfortable with fm synthesis. But I no longer have the time or the inclination to go back to such a tedious process of creation. I still had a tx81z when fm7 came out and I quickly (and happily) ended up selling it and replacing it with fm7. I recently messed around with the tg77 and was very happy to leave it with its owner. The patch editors I've seen are fine but most of them have pretty crappy interfaces. fm7, otoh, has a very good interface.
As far as the sound goes, there were definitely differences (and as this thread shows, a lot of people prefer the sound of hardware), but the ease of programming fm7 (and all the benefits of vst: real time automation, total recall, etc) trumped these for me. I use fm almost exclusively for obviously synthetic, continuously evolving sounds and here, because of automation, vst fm synthesizers are far superior to hardware ones. Using a separate program to program a patch, assigning the requisite controls and then recording the controller movements simply cannot compare with the ease of use and immediacy of a vst. Since I will end up making numerous changes to a patch over the course of a track, this is important to me. Archiving is also quite painful: even though I tried to back up patches on a regular basis, somehow I always ended up editing a patch that I'd used in another track and was never quite be able to get it back to the way it was before. In any event, the type of music I make is dense - highly modulated and effected - and this ends up masking all but the most obvious differences between units. But even if it wasn't, I know that I am more likely to get a good sound out of a unit I can program thoroughly than one that is technically better but less accessible. I've been tempted by the fs1r a few times, but I just know that it will end up sitting in a rack glowering at me while I end up using vsts.
fm7/8 is most definitely not the only port of call for fm synthesis in vst land. You should definitely also check out sytrus, octopus and rhino, at the very least. reaktor also has very good (and simplified) fm synthesizers.
As far as the sound goes, there were definitely differences (and as this thread shows, a lot of people prefer the sound of hardware), but the ease of programming fm7 (and all the benefits of vst: real time automation, total recall, etc) trumped these for me. I use fm almost exclusively for obviously synthetic, continuously evolving sounds and here, because of automation, vst fm synthesizers are far superior to hardware ones. Using a separate program to program a patch, assigning the requisite controls and then recording the controller movements simply cannot compare with the ease of use and immediacy of a vst. Since I will end up making numerous changes to a patch over the course of a track, this is important to me. Archiving is also quite painful: even though I tried to back up patches on a regular basis, somehow I always ended up editing a patch that I'd used in another track and was never quite be able to get it back to the way it was before. In any event, the type of music I make is dense - highly modulated and effected - and this ends up masking all but the most obvious differences between units. But even if it wasn't, I know that I am more likely to get a good sound out of a unit I can program thoroughly than one that is technically better but less accessible. I've been tempted by the fs1r a few times, but I just know that it will end up sitting in a rack glowering at me while I end up using vsts.
fm7/8 is most definitely not the only port of call for fm synthesis in vst land. You should definitely also check out sytrus, octopus and rhino, at the very least. reaktor also has very good (and simplified) fm synthesizers.
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- KVRAF
- 11162 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
Ditto. 100% agreed. Regarding hardware, the only FM machines I could ever consider buying are the SY99, which I own (because of the integration of subtractive and sampling, what Yamaha calls Realtime Convolution Modulation, that also is present in TG77, but without you own samples), the TX816 (because you have eight DX7s, which can make a really monstruous sound, but you can also pile FM7s, although that will cost you in terms of CPU), and the FS1R, because of the specifics (formant synthesis allied to FM synthesis). For all the other alternatives, I would favour software.suthnear wrote:The hardware synthesizers you've mentioned are all a complete pig to program so you'll need to get additional software tools if you intend making your own patches. My first ever synth was a yamaha dx21 and I spent years learning to program it from its itty-bitty lcd so I'm very comfortable with fm synthesis. But I no longer have the time or the inclination to go back to such a tedious process of creation. I still had a tx81z when fm7 came out and I quickly (and happily) ended up selling it and replacing it with fm7. I recently messed around with the tg77 and was very happy to leave it with its owner. The patch editors I've seen are fine but most of them have pretty crappy interfaces. fm7, otoh, has a very good interface.
As far as the sound goes, there were definitely differences (and as this thread shows, a lot of people prefer the sound of hardware), but the ease of programming fm7 (and all the benefits of vst: real time automation, total recall, etc) trumped these for me. I use fm almost exclusively for obviously synthetic, continuously evolving sounds and here, because of automation, vst fm synthesizers are far superior to hardware ones. Using a separate program to program a patch, assigning the requisite controls and then recording the controller movements simply cannot compare with the ease of use and immediacy of a vst. Since I will end up making numerous changes to a patch over the course of a track, this is important to me. Archiving is also quite painful: even though I tried to back up patches on a regular basis, somehow I always ended up editing a patch that I'd used in another track and was never quite be able to get it back to the way it was before. In any event, the type of music I make is dense - highly modulated and effected - and this ends up masking all but the most obvious differences between units. But even if it wasn't, I know that I am more likely to get a good sound out of a unit I can program thoroughly than one that is technically better but less accessible. I've been tempted by the fs1r a few times, but I just know that it will end up sitting in a rack glowering at me while I end up using vsts.
fm7/8 is most definitely not the only port of call for fm synthesis in vst land. You should definitely also check out sytrus, octopus and rhino, at the very least. reaktor also has very good (and simplified) fm synthesizers.
Fernando (FMR)
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- KVRian
- 511 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from ireland
Fm translates very well to vst-FM8 is one of the best applications of vst technology- it is an improvement over the original.
However a lot of people feel fm is a bit 'played out' id be happy enough with some freeware vst for fm sounds. I just couldnt bring myself to pay 500 lids for an 80's fm synth.
The Sega mega drive could do Fm sounds not far of a dx7-
for 500 you could prob pick up a second hand Yamaha Cs6r and the Dx7 plug in card for it.
GO with your instinct though.
However a lot of people feel fm is a bit 'played out' id be happy enough with some freeware vst for fm sounds. I just couldnt bring myself to pay 500 lids for an 80's fm synth.
The Sega mega drive could do Fm sounds not far of a dx7-
for 500 you could prob pick up a second hand Yamaha Cs6r and the Dx7 plug in card for it.
GO with your instinct though.
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- KVRAF
- 8644 posts since 2 Oct, 2006 from Leeds, UK
What about the DX200?
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