The "Zebra2 plays Virus" challenge

[shogger]

EDIT!

I added the audios, midis, patches and other useful files from this thread below in THIS posting for convenience and later reference. Enjoy.


Yeah!

The goal is to show if Zebra2 can emulate the famous Virus sounds really convincing. Convincing for everybody. That would be interesting.
My ideas how to do this:
Either post an audio file with the Virus sound + midi file so that Z2 users can try to emulate it
OR
post 2 audio files of Virus and Z2 for anybody to blindly compare.
Please tell which Virus version is used as there is told that the versions do sound differently.
I think it's not necessary to make such things a adding a password secured zip file with the upload that ensures which file is the Virus and give the password after some time. I hope we will be cool enough here to not need that. And to be honest: I think it would be cool if the emulations would become that good that we would need to be cool about that issue.

Please keep it nice and friendly.

Shogger

The "benchmark" Virus arp by Manuel Schleiss

Here is the original Virus Example

The infamous virus arp: virus1.mp3

The corresponding midi file to recreate the original arp

Here is the midifile: http://www.box.net/shared/v7m6dy44k9

Zebra attempts to recreate the Virus arp

hope you like it

http://www.michaelkastrup.com/synthdemo ... nge_01.mp3

/Michael

Oh... what the heck! I've just spent half an hour making this: http://www.box.net/shared/ttnd2ldxk5
It's just a quick teaser for you non-believing Tarnce fans out there.
Hmmm. Starts a bit too softly, kicks in later. Enjoy

http://www.u-he.com/music/Zirbrus3.mp3 (harder than the original, less hifi)
http://www.u-he.com/music/Zirbrus4.mp3 (adds deep bass)

http://www.michaelkastrup.com/synthdemo ... nge_02.mp3

To me the following one is the best emulation so far of all posted ones, Zebra or other synths:

Anyways, i think this example is somewhat true to the genre:

http://www.michaelkastrup.com/synthdemo ... nge_03.mp3

EDIT: oops perhaps i should add, this sound is ment to be inspired by the Virus example not emulation because then i would have to do serious research on the filter settings. This version is more what i would prefer coming from Zebra.

To me the Virus example sounds more like a flatliner buzz and not that dynamic in sound. Well at least i'm not blown away by the original, thats for sure. Maybe because that sound have been played to death.

/Michael

Some dirty 'Virus-y' trance arps made with Zebra2 :

Trance Arp 1
Trance Arp 2
Trance Arp 3

First uses the Exciter filter, second the Middrive filter and the third uses the XMF-filter = lots of balls !

Peter.

I had a little try with the midi file,

this is pure Zebra,

Zebra arp

ok here are two more attempts
(both are pure Zebra)

Zebra arp 2

Zebra arp 3

This is my last attempt, that arp is driving me nuts !!

Zebra2 goes Virus.

There's something else going on in the Virus mp3, I have some of Manuel Schleis' soundbanks and sorry to say, but I didn't find a sound that powerful.

Peter.

Ok, I had a go after all. It's not perfect, but it's fairly close. I couldn't get the envelope shape exactly the same and it definitely needs a unison but it definitely retains something of the, um, spirit. It's all z2 other than the reverb It's at:

http://www.mediafire.com/?cmft1wmawot

I've included the patch as well.

Other synths attempts to recreate the Virus arp

How's this?
http://www.mindtrick.com/music/Virus_Arp3.mp3

I made this one with Sylenth1, no external effects:
http://rapidshare.com/files/46771598/sylus.mp3.html

so here is mine.
http://home.arcor.de/rd50info_site/soun ... rus1_l.mp3
first completely dry then a bit delay and later reverb for the typical modern cheesy trance sound that I hate soo much.

This was my try then using Xhip and some effects: gsoto_xhip_virus_arp.mp3

Hey all, here's my attempt, the original is damn hard to reproduce to say the least (makes me want a Virus even more!)...

http://www.savefile.com/files/942563

Btw. here is Adventus playing the arp example
http://www.bigsoftwares.com/mp3/arpvengance.mp3

My try with the extremely underrated vst Komplexer:
http://www.maxfrank.se/dump/tmp/Virus_ARP-Komplexer.mp3 <--- boosted the highs just a tad for some sparkle and also some external reverb.

Albino can do a decent job.. better than this old patch here but still.. not bad and no reverbs or compressors added

http://www.kaboegel.com/kvr/V_arp_albino.mp3

Anyway, I read alot that the virus does not sound like software and to me it sounds very digital and "software" (it was next to a little phatty at GC...),still the virus deserves its recognition as a kick ass synth.

Check out: http://www.audjoo.com/Helix/mp3/trance-arp.mp3

[edit: two cubase "dynamics" in serial is applied to the sound]

I hope Helix will be the go-to vst for "super-saw" when it's easier to use and there are some better patches to tweak.

I've been exploring a new toy of mine a little and just found this thread, so here goes

Markus

OK - try to ignore the dodgy MIDI (I played and rendered it in MiniHost - ) Someone brought up Voyager which made me think of the other voyager . . . Here're five homemade presets playing by now what must be your favorite arp tune

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PO0H001M

I *never ever* thought about contributing to any such a thread. I mean, I'm a synth-idiot, nothing else. Anyways, I slapped the MIDI file onto something and rendered it down. Three versions of it.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/temp/LameOldArp.mp3
And no, I'm not trying to get any Virus sound simulated - I don't even have a clue about what a Virus sounds like. The only thing I tried was to get a sound that'd probably work "in context". And hey, maybe none of them does. As said, I'm no synth-dude (nor a tarnce musician), just a guitar player playing some blues licks.

two more attempts for similar arp sounds

http://home.arcor.de/soundspace1/patchwork/virus_ti.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/soundspace1/patchw ... us_ti2.mp3

Had a few goes (not with zebra). Although I don't really like this sound. There are way better sounds in the demo mp3s.

http://minorcrisis.net/files/v1.mp3
http://minorcrisis.net/files/v2.mp3
http://minorcrisis.net/files/v3.mp3

I gave it an other shot, this time with Twin.
Twin does Virus arpie

Other audios to show Zebra qualities

Try have Virus copy this http://www.michaelkastrup.com/synthdemo ... ieDown.mp3 (its all Zebra)

/Michael

Ok. 4 patches in two flavours each. At least one "a" is a u-he synth and at least one "a" is a Moog synth. Post your solution and why you think which is which.

Hasn't had much resonance on kvr because it was already solved in another board. If you want it to work, don't use google.

If you like the resonance in ZCM, check out the XMF filter in the Z2 2.1 demo. That thing literally screams.
http://www.u-he.com/music/XMFdemo.mp3

http://www.michaelkastrup.com/synthdemo ... zzy_01.mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/?7ocxqmgmny7

You'll see WHY it's called Zebra has children when you hear it

http://www.savefile.com/files/944820

I've also had a go at getting that cool pad sound in the Virus example I posted (that's sound number 10). It's not quite there but usable in it's own right...

http://www.savefile.com/files/944827

Other Virus audios

Here are some Virus TI presets:
http://eugenepark81.googlepages.com/virusti.mp3

Hrm... those aren't particularly the most flattering presets. Heck, most of the factory presets on the Virus B sound better than those.

a few TI presets that use the graintables and formant filter:
http://www.speedyshare.com/112380635.html

Well, I don't know how famous they are, but here are a few:

This one I think will appeal to your sensibilities the most, though, sir Michael.
PerKristian - Equinoxe5 (raw output of a sequenced Virus KB in multi-mode)

The others are more along the lines of the dance variety. No post processing; just the Virus B in multi-mode:

Flux Compensator
V-Clipse2
Endorphins (Virus B factory demo)
Presets on Parade (A variety of factory presets from the Virus B. A number of them by Howard! )

Keep in mind, the Virus B does not have a built-in EQ (of course, we will never know if there is some undocumented equalization going on pre-outputs). The amount of low and midrange bass presence of the Virus is impressive for a VA, providing for a much "rounder" sound than I typically hear in most digital synths.

Anyways, these should help to provide a fairly decent impression of the traditional Virus' essential character.

~ Tronam

Check out these particular sounds (I compiled my favorites from the vengeance audio demos).

I really doubt that any native VSTi can do any of these sounds, but I'd love to be proven wrong

http://www.savefile.com/files/943297

1: some sort of hard lead, the way this attacks is just incredible
2: a very strong bassline which really sounds like there's some vintage compression going on ... could he be lying on his site about audio processing?
3: similar to 2, wow, the attack
4: a wicked bassline, the phaser just sits perfectly, or is that some sort of parallel filter combo ? not sure
5: again a very snappy lead synth, the way the attack does it's thing really stands out
6: background chord kinda thing, huge and rich, just sounds it was pulled from a trance record
7: the bell pad, wowee, gorgeous, lush
8: a trancy lead, this one intruiges me because the EQing / sound is quite different and the filter sounds plain awesome
9: phaser type chords, wow this phaser really rocks and again, you just feel that attack of the sound
10: a really creepy pad thingy, wow, it still has a bite which I love

Cheers
Fots

Anyone mind to post an example of all 9 HypeSaws at, say, C6 (really high tone), with detune sweeping from max to min?

http://www.summasounds.de/files/HypersawC6.mp3

There are tons of wicked sounds on Incubation v2. Some of the basses are particularly interesting. I couldn't even get CLOSE to replicating the basses, like, even if I slapped on all the processing in the world, not even remotely close.

The sound demo is here...
http://www.vengeance-storage.com/www.ve ... chleis.mp3

Check out the following times...

0:38 - the main arp everyone is talking about
2:15 - one of the hardest leads I've ever heard, again no chance I could even replicate half the sound on this one
2:34 / 3:10 / 3:21 - the wicked bass sounds These are substantially harder to produce than the arp above, try it! Use as many effects as you want!

Cheers
Fots

Show offs of other synths

How's this?
http://www.mindtrick.com/music/Virus_Arp3.mp3

And guess which synth this one is?
http://www.mindtrick.com/music/PhatMath.mp3
(yes, it's all a synth)

HERE is a small example I made a while back when comparing various filter behavior between different synths.

Unfortunately I no longer have the Virus B (or much else anymore), but I can definitely corroborate the "darkness" of it. The high frequencies always seemed attenuated somehow, even when the filter was wide open. The only truly raw example I ever recorded off of it without any effects is the filter test I had linked to earlier. I believe this begins with the filter completely open:

Virus B

...and just for kicks, notice how wildly different the Nord Lead 2's filter behaves and it's capability for high frequency sharpness (I don't even think I opened it all the way in this clip), even on bass sounds. No wonder it's so popular in PsyTrance and Techno:

Nord Lead 2

Back on speaking about copying virussounds (with schleis as base, Incubation 3 to be precise), I made this one with the Komplexer:
http://www.maxfrank.se/dump/tmp/pure_magic.mp3

No eq, layering or crap like that, straight from the Komplexer running through an arts acoustic reverb.
Now...tell me a soft synth that can even come close to this, I'd buy it instantly. Maybe the simulation is closer to a Nord Lead, but it still is lush.

Posted presets
Zebra

Did you check these patches?
http://www.zebrasynth.com/download/Peter_Bank.rar

KVR Name: wonshu
Release Date: May 23, 2007
Description: 2 preset banks from Urs' Virus ( OS 2.8 )
http://www.hanshafner.de/quickupload/hh ... zibrus.zip
Zebra
KVR Name: wonshu
Release Date: May 29, 2007
Description: Factory Patches from the Virus, Bank A
http://www.hanshafner.de/quickupload/HH ... resets.zip

You can find a bunch more Z2 presets at: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180090

Nord Modular

would you share that patch?

Sure. 2 patches (one was for the washy bits):
http://www.box.net/shared/29nljncpoc
Tweak and add FX to taste

[sushishiva]

Did you check these patches?
http://www.zebrasynth.com/download/Peter_Bank.rar

[musikmachine]

I'd really like to here some, not to prove one is better but to hear just how good the zebra is..

[jupiter8]

Surely the Z2 can't sound exactly like a Virus.Only the Virus can. However i think the opposite competition would be more exciting. Can the Virus do all that Z2 does ? Or not as i know it can't. It's a rather limited synth synthwise. Excellent sounding for sure but still really limited compared to Z2.

[sushishiva]

Hmm, i might have put up a wrong link.. i thought that bank (Peter_Bank) was an emulation of some virus presets but i'm not sure now. Can't find any info on it, they do you sound fat though.

EDIT:

Right, my mistake. I have a bank called "HH - The Zibrus" in my zebra presets folder.
Those are definetly Virus emulated presets. Now just to find a link

[musikmachine]

Surely the Z2 can't sound exactly like a Virus.Only the Virus can. However i think the opposite competition would be more exciting. Can the Virus do all that Z2 does ? Or not as i know it can't. It's a rather limited synth synthwise. Excellent sounding for sure but still really limited compared to Z2.

I know..but when i think of zebra i think of the retired synth section on the website which has a virus or two(and the rest) i'd like to hear an a/b comparison or were those guys just doing it to get a discount!?!

[bmrzycki]

Hmm, i might have put up a wrong link.. i thought that bank (Peter_Bank) was an emulation of some virus presets but i'm not sure now. Can't find any info on it, they do you sound fat though.

EDIT:

Right, my mistake. I have a bank called "HH - The Zibrus" in my zebra presets folder.
Those are definetly Virus emulated presets. Now just to find a link

The patches you're looking for were done by wonshu. Here are the links:

KVR Name: wonshu
Release Date: May 23, 2007
Description: 2 preset banks from Urs' Virus ( OS 2.8 )
http://www.hanshafner.de/quickupload/hh ... zibrus.zip

KVR Name: wonshu
Release Date: May 29, 2007
Description: Factory Patches from the Virus, Bank A
http://www.hanshafner.de/quickupload/HH ... resets.zip

You can find a bunch more Z2 presets at: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180090

[Per Lichtman]

I'm curious myself. Looking forward to hearing the results.

[aquar]

Yeah it sounds cool enough.
To be honest I followed the other thread where a few dudes were bigging up adxhip as a virus killer <insert histerical laughter here>

The z2 looks very promising indeed and perhaps the strongest contender to pull off a virus emulation. hmmm

[jupiter8]

Yeah it sounds cool enough.
To be honest I followed the other thread where a few dudes were bigging up adxhip as a virus killer <insert histerical laughter here>

That thread was about supersaws and nothing else. And the Virus has inbuilt effects whereas Xhip has not. Huge difference.
Not to go all heavy on the Virus. I'm sure it is a fine and dandy synth but i'm getting a bit tired of the almost mythical status some people think it has. It's software running on DSPs. Simple as that. A very good synth with excellent presets. Hard to achieve for sure but there's nothing magical going on under the hood.

[sushishiva]

Hmm, i might have put up a wrong link.. i thought that bank (Peter_Bank) was an emulation of some virus presets but i'm not sure now. Can't find any info on it, they do you sound fat though.

EDIT:

Right, my mistake. I have a bank called "HH - The Zibrus" in my zebra presets folder.
Those are definetly Virus emulated presets. Now just to find a link

The patches you're looking for were done by wonshu. Here are the links:

KVR Name: wonshu
Release Date: May 23, 2007
Description: 2 preset banks from Urs' Virus ( OS 2.8 )
http://www.hanshafner.de/quickupload/hh ... zibrus.zip

KVR Name: wonshu
Release Date: May 29, 2007
Description: Factory Patches from the Virus, Bank A
http://www.hanshafner.de/quickupload/HH ... resets.zip

You can find a bunch more Z2 presets at: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180090

Thanks

[Urs]

However i think the opposite competition would be more exciting. Can the Virus do all that Z2 does ?

Good idea

Can one get these sounds out of a later Virus (drums are samples tho - and - Unfair! Good old Zebra 1.5 used! - But then, you could also use older Virii...)

Or something like this patch (only one chord held - Unfair! Comb filters! )

Or can one do this with 4 Virus patches, as this is solely done with 4 instances of Zebra2 (stoopid composition aside - and - Unfair! Velocity/key crossfades! MultiStage Envelopes! )

Miss punch? Here you go. (Unfair! Modulated highpass in delay feedback! )

As far as I can see, the list of Z2 sounds the Virus can not do at all is endless. The list of Virus sounds that Z2 doesn't come close to seems pretty limited (I yet have to hear an audio example that shows the Virus' unachievable "depth", "punch" and "somethingness"). I think a comparison would not really be fair

However, as I said somewhere else, Zebra 1.0 was specifically designed to overcome the flaws that I found in my Virus A. Zebra was designed to sound organic, mellow and expressive. Later on it became modular and added hybrid aspects such as additive synthesis and physical modelling-ish stuff. Over the years the Virus seemed to become a bit more mellow as well - if one wanted to. And Zebra gained options to sound a tad more aggressive. Or just somehow smooth.

On the downside: It's easy to create a sound in Zebra that's crap. Happens to me all the time. Doesn't happen that often in the Virus. That's because the Virus has virtual analogue parameter ranges within a virtual analogue flexibility. For the same reason that the Virus pretty much always sounds "good" one can't really dial anything into it that's not virtual analogue (including PPGish). Thus, for the broader range of stuff you get out of Zebra (or Absynth, or Tera, or XYZ) you have to pay the price that there's a lot of crap inbetween the beautiful spots.

Urs

[musikmachine]

Zebra: 6

Virus: 0

[puffer]

On the downside: It's easy to create a sound in Zebra that's crap. Happens to me all the time. Doesn't happen that often in the Virus. That's because the Virus has virtual analogue parameter ranges within a virtual analogue flexibility. For the same reason that the Virus pretty much always sounds "good" one can't really dial anything into it that's not virtual analogue (including PPGish). Thus, for the broader range of stuff you get out of Zebra (or Absynth, or Tera, or XYZ) you have to pay the price that there's a lot of crap inbetween the beautiful spots.

Urs

I find I spend a lot of time traveling in this area. I mostly just deconstruct and fiddle with patches and I can make a great, interesting patch sound like crap in a few mouse clicks. Of course getting there is half the fun, and finding your way back to something useful is half the learning experience.

[danielmm]

I have a Virus B and Zebra2. (I love them both)...but I find the comparison thing a little tired. PC vs. Mac, software vs. hardware, etc. It enivitably turns into a pissing match. I like the idea of trying to make one sound like the other as an exercise in programming though.
dano