I just picked up the new CME UF80 88 key MIDI controller last night that I pre-ordered a couple months ago. I probably am one of the firsts to receive it.
Not long enough to review it fully, but overall I am very happy with it. For the price $649+tax/shipping, it is a very good master keyboard. I am replacing my Roland FP-5 digital piano and Axiom 49 with this unit.
Few random notes:
- the thing weighs a ton! I thought my old Roland FP-5 was heavy to lug it around. I think this is heavier. Must be somewhere near 60 lbs
- the included WIDI (Wireless MIDI) works pretty darn well. I thought it will add ton of latency, but I couldn't really tell. It comes with a little USB stick that you plug in to your computer to receive the signal from your keyboard. Works nice and for the price, I can't believe it is included
- USB driver issues are not there. You plug it in and it recognized in XP and it just works. No drivers to install. Haven't tried it on my Vista machine, but I do my music stuff on XP only for now.
- The keys feel very nice. I would say about on par or slightly not as good as the Yamaha Motif series keys. It is hammer action, but it is not graded heavy to light as you go higher. It is better than any other 88 hammer action MIDI controller at this price range. Compared to this M-Audio KeyStaion/ProStation 88 MIDI controller feel like a toy
- The keys are not as realistic as my Roland FP-5 or Yamaha P250 (CLP170) in terms of using it for piano, but pretty darn close. It seems a bit more linear under my fingers than my Roland FP-5 that I replaced
- The side corner of front edge of the white keys seems slightly sharp. You feel it when you do octave/13th stretch and have to lay your finger across the front portion of the keyboard. You feel the sharp end on inside of your thumb and your pinky. Not a huge deal, but I noticed. Not sharp enough cut anything, but enough to annoy me.
- The brushed aluminum looks really nice. I like it better than the old CME UF8 with the red finish.
- I am not sure if the keys are the same as old UF8 or not. I've never owned UF8 and I've only played with it for like 1 minute at the store before. But this unit does not have the sticky key issue and I don't have to press every key down first prior to start playing. Maybe it will show up later?
- It has two sockets in the back for inserting pedals (sustain, volume or expression). I was all worried that it will only have one, because the CME website pictures shows only one plug called (Sustain), but the actual keyboard has two, "Pedal 1" and "Pedal 2", plus the Breath Controller
I will post further info as I start fiddling with the knobs and sliders more and get used to the keyboard.
The New CME UF80 keyboard / MIDI controller
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- KVRist
- 46 posts since 26 Apr, 2006
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 46 posts since 26 Apr, 2006
I played with it some more last night. I stopped by at my friends house who has Motif ES to compare (not side by side) the key feels.
- Yamaha Motif keys are better, although not by a huge margin. Mainly the CME keys tend to bounce around when you let go, rather than coming to a stop immediately. The key feels more like a lever rather than complex mechanism moving underneath.
- It seems that I can use one step smaller sample size (for latency) when I use direct USB connection rather than the WIDI wireless USB. I will try the direct MIDI connection and see if that gets any better.
- Yamaha Motif keys are better, although not by a huge margin. Mainly the CME keys tend to bounce around when you let go, rather than coming to a stop immediately. The key feels more like a lever rather than complex mechanism moving underneath.
- It seems that I can use one step smaller sample size (for latency) when I use direct USB connection rather than the WIDI wireless USB. I will try the direct MIDI connection and see if that gets any better.
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- KVRist
- 163 posts since 31 Dec, 2004
hey johnny, i just got the uf70 and have been having some problems.
Are you experiencing any odd behavior with the OS when trying to change banks or assign a midi CC to a slider or knob?
My black keys can't go above a velocity of ~115, and in general, all keys play way too loud even with a "soft" velocity curve. How about yours?
Are you experiencing any odd behavior with the OS when trying to change banks or assign a midi CC to a slider or knob?
My black keys can't go above a velocity of ~115, and in general, all keys play way too loud even with a "soft" velocity curve. How about yours?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 46 posts since 26 Apr, 2006
Parke02,
I had issues with the CC sliders, knobs and etc when I first plugged it in to the computer, but once I rebooted the system, then everything worked fine. Maybe the USB driver that gets installed requires a reboot?
I was testing with MIDI OX last night on all the sliders and knobs and keys, and it is sending the signals correctly. Also, I don't think I am having any velocity issues with the keys. The default is "Soft 1" I think and it does tend to be a bit level 127 happy, and so I set it to "Soft 2" and it seems about perfect for me. If I play it soft, I can get it below 40 easily, and If I hit it pretty hard, I do get 127.
I have not noticed difference between the black and the white keys. I was playing through my Art Vista piano samples and it seems to be correct. I don't think the blacks are any quiter than the white keys.
BTW, my yamaha P250 keys also do bounce around a bit when I let go, so it is not just the CME thing.
So far so good, except for the modulation wheel. It was fine until last night, and when I push it up all the way,it is grinding on something. I don't know what, but I think the wheel is actually touching the casing.
I had issues with the CC sliders, knobs and etc when I first plugged it in to the computer, but once I rebooted the system, then everything worked fine. Maybe the USB driver that gets installed requires a reboot?
I was testing with MIDI OX last night on all the sliders and knobs and keys, and it is sending the signals correctly. Also, I don't think I am having any velocity issues with the keys. The default is "Soft 1" I think and it does tend to be a bit level 127 happy, and so I set it to "Soft 2" and it seems about perfect for me. If I play it soft, I can get it below 40 easily, and If I hit it pretty hard, I do get 127.
I have not noticed difference between the black and the white keys. I was playing through my Art Vista piano samples and it seems to be correct. I don't think the blacks are any quiter than the white keys.
BTW, my yamaha P250 keys also do bounce around a bit when I let go, so it is not just the CME thing.
So far so good, except for the modulation wheel. It was fine until last night, and when I push it up all the way,it is grinding on something. I don't know what, but I think the wheel is actually touching the casing.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 46 posts since 26 Apr, 2006
Hmmm, I am seeing the same velocity issue that Parke02 is seeing. I've spent more time with the keys tonight and paid attention to the keys.
Basically I get Max around 116 for black keys and 127 for white keys. This is when I strike at the same distance away from the fallboard, which means my fingers are right next to the black keys when I am hitting the white keys. That should give very similar velocity since the lever distance should be the same. Setting the velocity curve to "normal" seem to make it a bit better, but then as Parke02 mentioned, the velocity numbers are a bit too high, and I can't use it. I prefer Soft 2 curve, but then it exaggerate the problem worse.
So far that is my biggest concern for the keyboard. The mod wheel issue fixed itself (weird).
Basically I get Max around 116 for black keys and 127 for white keys. This is when I strike at the same distance away from the fallboard, which means my fingers are right next to the black keys when I am hitting the white keys. That should give very similar velocity since the lever distance should be the same. Setting the velocity curve to "normal" seem to make it a bit better, but then as Parke02 mentioned, the velocity numbers are a bit too high, and I can't use it. I prefer Soft 2 curve, but then it exaggerate the problem worse.
So far that is my biggest concern for the keyboard. The mod wheel issue fixed itself (weird).
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 3 Aug, 2007
I noticed the mention of keyboard feel in the thread above. I am currently using a Kurzweil SP88-X as my keyboard controller. As my background is as a pianist I prefer a real piano feel. Can enyone tell me of the CME UF80 would be a step up from my SP88-X?
Thanks!
BTW: I am new to this forum.
Thanks!
BTW: I am new to this forum.
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- KVRist
- 163 posts since 31 Dec, 2004
Thanks for checking that johnny_boy. I saw your post on the CME forum as well.
In all honesty, the black vs white key velocity issue isn't too big of a deal for me as its pretty hard to notice. I might have never known if I hadn't specifically tested 4 this.
The show-stopper for me is that overall velocity is too high, even with the "Soft" velocity curve. Either this is an issue with the velocity curve or perhaps the keybed's velocity sensors are too sensitive. CME is supposedly releasing a software editor that will allow for custom velocity curves, but I don't think it'll be any time soon.
In all honesty, the black vs white key velocity issue isn't too big of a deal for me as its pretty hard to notice. I might have never known if I hadn't specifically tested 4 this.
The show-stopper for me is that overall velocity is too high, even with the "Soft" velocity curve. Either this is an issue with the velocity curve or perhaps the keybed's velocity sensors are too sensitive. CME is supposedly releasing a software editor that will allow for custom velocity curves, but I don't think it'll be any time soon.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 46 posts since 26 Apr, 2006
Please see this link for Park02's UF70 issue which I am refering here. http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187053
I was able to verify on my UF80 what parke02 is seeing on his UF70.
- Just like Parke02 mentioned, the knobs and slider reassigning acts funky. Some knobs or sliders does not show the MIDI controller number. It just shows "_ _ _" even if you slide the knobs or sliders like you are supposed to. If I exit and retry once or twice, then I can get that knob or slider to show the controller number, so I can modify it. But then some other slider or knob has the same behavior.
It seems that we have 8 knobs but the computer memory innside only has 7 slots. You can only adjust 7 knobs at a time. It is random, which one will not be adjustable. This is annoying, but at least the workaround is there, by pressing exit and then trying it out a couple more times, and hope that now some other knob is randomly not accesible rather than the one you are trying to get to.
- I am also seeing the bank change issue that parke02 is seeing. If I clcik Load & Save button at the same time, sometimes I can change the value, or sometimes it exits (stops blinking)for me, before I can change the value. This seems to be somewhat random however.
- I am not seeing the G3/G3# note issue, however. Parke02, I think yours is defective on those two keys. maybe wires crossed somewhere?
At this point, for me, these are annoyance that I can't belive it was not caught during the testing, but not a show stopper for me, as long as the firmware upgrade will address the issue later.
However, the velocity issue could be a deal breaker for me (i have 25 days before I can return my unit to the retailer). I am having a hard time playing some pieces on my piano samples (Art Vista Virtual Grand Piano and Synthogy Ivory) because the black keys have lower velocity than white keys. I can fiddle with the software, so it gets better, but I just want the black and white keys to have the same velocity level when same lateral position and the same amount of force is used.
I was able to verify on my UF80 what parke02 is seeing on his UF70.
- Just like Parke02 mentioned, the knobs and slider reassigning acts funky. Some knobs or sliders does not show the MIDI controller number. It just shows "_ _ _" even if you slide the knobs or sliders like you are supposed to. If I exit and retry once or twice, then I can get that knob or slider to show the controller number, so I can modify it. But then some other slider or knob has the same behavior.
It seems that we have 8 knobs but the computer memory innside only has 7 slots. You can only adjust 7 knobs at a time. It is random, which one will not be adjustable. This is annoying, but at least the workaround is there, by pressing exit and then trying it out a couple more times, and hope that now some other knob is randomly not accesible rather than the one you are trying to get to.
- I am also seeing the bank change issue that parke02 is seeing. If I clcik Load & Save button at the same time, sometimes I can change the value, or sometimes it exits (stops blinking)for me, before I can change the value. This seems to be somewhat random however.
- I am not seeing the G3/G3# note issue, however. Parke02, I think yours is defective on those two keys. maybe wires crossed somewhere?
At this point, for me, these are annoyance that I can't belive it was not caught during the testing, but not a show stopper for me, as long as the firmware upgrade will address the issue later.
However, the velocity issue could be a deal breaker for me (i have 25 days before I can return my unit to the retailer). I am having a hard time playing some pieces on my piano samples (Art Vista Virtual Grand Piano and Synthogy Ivory) because the black keys have lower velocity than white keys. I can fiddle with the software, so it gets better, but I just want the black and white keys to have the same velocity level when same lateral position and the same amount of force is used.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 46 posts since 26 Apr, 2006
I tried out the U-CTRL tonight. It seems to work fine with Cubase SX 3, I can control recording/play/skip/stop functions as well as the faders to conrol the mixer.instred wrote:I'm interested in the CME UF80. How does the u-Ctrl work on the unit and how easy to change the setting in a DAW or intruments?
Please let us know.
I was reading somewhere that U-CTRL only works with the USB connection and not the actual MIDI cable? I have not tried out with the MIDI cable directly yet. Also, it seems that if you are using Cakewalk, you will have to set it up manually rather than selecting the Mackie Control as your template.
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 13 Aug, 2007
I just purchased a CME-UF-80 and have mixed feelings about it. To start with, I love the feel of the keyboard. For the price, I have not found anything out there this nice for the money.
I have had problems with the widi such as hanging notes and extreme latency that did not resolve when I moved my computer close to it. It worked at first and then began to give me these problems after several days. I finally solved the issue with an old fashioned midi cable. Now, all of those issues are solved and , frankly, I can live with a cable.
What I don't think I can live with is a strange phenominon that occurs with holding, for example, down a c with one hand and hitting a c# at high velocity with my other hand. I can actually hear metal hitting metal when I do this. I checked and this occurs with these and several other black note combinations all the way up the keyboard. the sound this makes is not cool! i can't imagine this being good for the UF-80. I have a call in to my dealer and may end up returning this as I feel this is a design flaw issue. Anyone else had a similar occurance?
Dara
I have had problems with the widi such as hanging notes and extreme latency that did not resolve when I moved my computer close to it. It worked at first and then began to give me these problems after several days. I finally solved the issue with an old fashioned midi cable. Now, all of those issues are solved and , frankly, I can live with a cable.
What I don't think I can live with is a strange phenominon that occurs with holding, for example, down a c with one hand and hitting a c# at high velocity with my other hand. I can actually hear metal hitting metal when I do this. I checked and this occurs with these and several other black note combinations all the way up the keyboard. the sound this makes is not cool! i can't imagine this being good for the UF-80. I have a call in to my dealer and may end up returning this as I feel this is a design flaw issue. Anyone else had a similar occurance?
Dara
Johnny_Boy wrote:I just picked up the new CME UF80 88 key MIDI controller last night that I pre-ordered a couple months ago. I probably am one of the firsts to receive it.
Not long enough to review it fully, but overall I am very happy with it. For the price $649+tax/shipping, it is a very good master keyboard. I am replacing my Roland FP-5 digital piano and Axiom 49 with this unit.
Few random notes:
- the thing weighs a ton! I thought my old Roland FP-5 was heavy to lug it around. I think this is heavier. Must be somewhere near 60 lbs
- the included WIDI (Wireless MIDI) works pretty darn well. I thought it will add ton of latency, but I couldn't really tell. It comes with a little USB stick that you plug in to your computer to receive the signal from your keyboard. Works nice and for the price, I can't believe it is included
- USB driver issues are not there. You plug it in and it recognized in XP and it just works. No drivers to install. Haven't tried it on my Vista machine, but I do my music stuff on XP only for now.
- The keys feel very nice. I would say about on par or slightly not as good as the Yamaha Motif series keys. It is hammer action, but it is not graded heavy to light as you go higher. It is better than any other 88 hammer action MIDI controller at this price range. Compared to this M-Audio KeyStaion/ProStation 88 MIDI controller feel like a toy
- The keys are not as realistic as my Roland FP-5 or Yamaha P250 (CLP170) in terms of using it for piano, but pretty darn close. It seems a bit more linear under my fingers than my Roland FP-5 that I replaced
- The side corner of front edge of the white keys seems slightly sharp. You feel it when you do octave/13th stretch and have to lay your finger across the front portion of the keyboard. You feel the sharp end on inside of your thumb and your pinky. Not a huge deal, but I noticed. Not sharp enough cut anything, but enough to annoy me.
- The brushed aluminum looks really nice. I like it better than the old CME UF8 with the red finish.
- I am not sure if the keys are the same as old UF8 or not. I've never owned UF8 and I've only played with it for like 1 minute at the store before. But this unit does not have the sticky key issue and I don't have to press every key down first prior to start playing. Maybe it will show up later?
- It has two sockets in the back for inserting pedals (sustain, volume or expression). I was all worried that it will only have one, because the CME website pictures shows only one plug called (Sustain), but the actual keyboard has two, "Pedal 1" and "Pedal 2", plus the Breath Controller
I will post further info as I start fiddling with the knobs and sliders more and get used to the keyboard.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 46 posts since 26 Apr, 2006
dara,
I tried out what you were saying and yes, I see that issue onmy keyboard as well. C#, F#, and G# has that metal clicking notes, when you are holding down the key just below. It basically happens thoughout the whole key range. I think the hammer is hitting the other keys while it is moving. I think when you hit is with decent velocity, I bet the hammer wiggles abit side to side.
I tried out what you were saying and yes, I see that issue onmy keyboard as well. C#, F#, and G# has that metal clicking notes, when you are holding down the key just below. It basically happens thoughout the whole key range. I think the hammer is hitting the other keys while it is moving. I think when you hit is with decent velocity, I bet the hammer wiggles abit side to side.
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 8 Nov, 2006
I had a UF70 for a couple of days - I sent it back to the dealer after I found some strange problem over USB. Keys G and G# in the fourth octave would only trigger if the other key was released beforehand (ie if I held down G then struck G# legato, G# would not trigger until G was released, and vice-versa). All other keys were fine (it was a polyphonic patch I was playing, not a mono patch with legato). Bizarre.
Too many reports of unreliability with these CME's it seems. So back it went - I now have a Studiologic VMK-176 on its way.
Too many reports of unreliability with these CME's it seems. So back it went - I now have a Studiologic VMK-176 on its way.