hardware samplers- better for drums?

[markroom]

Some people say old 90's hardawre samplers and modern mpc are better for "simple" things like drums/drumlayering.

Does anyone agree with this.

Now that Akai S samplers are so cheap etc.


I know people will say you get what you put in blah blah blah-

but lately ive been looking at the results - many sample based genres have gone down hill in the last few years- look at drum and bass etc. Is this because we all use computers now?


I love software and there are things that i cant imagine attempting on a hardware sampler with limited memory etc. However sometimes i feel a lot of use miss the opertunity to use computers for what they are best at. If computer daws cant produce the best kick or bass warmth we can still use them as a more powerful way to control or edit harware better suited for these task.

Is that what we should be doing. hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[jupiter8]

hardware samplers- better for drums?

As a general rule,no.
However some like the sound of them.I don't miss hardware samplers one bit. Good riddance,hope i never have to use one again.

but lately ive been looking at the results - many sample based genres have gone down hill in the last few years- look at drum and bass etc. Is this because we all use computers now?

No.

I love software and there are things that i cant imagine attempting on a software sampler with limited memory etc.

Limited memory in a softsampler ? How much memory do you think the old MPCs S series samplers had ? With few exceptions,not a lot.
The MPC 60 had like a megabyte or so. The S1000 had eight.

If computer daws cant produce the best kick or bass warmth we can still use them as a more powerful way to control or edit harware better suited for these task.

If you can't get the sound you want from a computer chances are you suck not your tools.

[Chopper]

there is a good reason why hardware samplers that used to cost grands are going for dozens of pounds now...

yes, if you want straight out of the box grungy fat drums then get an akai s900 or s950, yes, programming beat on an old mpc is a breeze (avoid the new ones, the 500, 1000, 25000 and 4000 are too "clean"), but do you really want to bother with them? spend your time (and money) working on your production techniques instead, learn as much as you can about compressors and eqs, cause this is the secret, and that would be time well spent...

[Radek]

I love software and there are things that i cant imagine attempting on a software sampler with limited memory etc. However sometimes i feel a lot of use miss the opertunity to use computers for what they are best at. If computer daws cant produce the best kick or bass warmth we can still use them as a more powerful way to control or edit harware better suited for these task.

Is that what we should be doing. hmmmmmmmmmmmm

You should do what you feel. Given how cheap are some hardware samplers are now it might be interesting to get one. Every machines give it's own character (the same goes for VST samplers as well - they all have differences), it might be possible to get better with such unit. Anyway those were designed by companies with years of experiences and it isn't something to be diminished easily just by virtue by gigaspecs of current PC machines.

Another thing is libraries for say Akai - it's obvious that those will be played best only by Akai samplers.

For the "big size argument" search for so called "mod files" which started with computers like Amiga. There lots of great tunes made using just few hundreds worth of samples an only 4 voices of polyphony. Such limited specs don't exclude a possibility of getting interesting results.

[musikmachine]

Well i got to say this,i have an RS7000 workstation and it rocks!

I think it's a fairly unique instrument and the way everything works together makes it incredibly powerful.Things like noteshift,sequence play fx,play fx and resampling combined..awesome

Not forgetting the master fx

Hooked up to live and have all the sample fodder i'm ever going to need

I don't know about the mpcs,isn't FL basically the same?Hardwares nice in that you have a dedicated interface and you can just swirch it on and start playing.Tbh i am more focused with hardware cos i'm not dstracted by issues that usually surround software such as cpu use etc

I think some people work better with hw and vice versa

[Radek]

Well i got to say this,i have an RS7000 workstation and it rocks!

I will probably try to snap QY700 one. That one also rocks and in some aspects it's still more advanced than current midi sequencers.

I think it's a fairly unique instrument and the way everything works together makes it incredibly powerful.Things like noteshift,sequence play fx,play fx and resampling combined..awesome

A tight system can have its advantages.

[stk]

you get what you put in blah blah blah


really, it's true.

/sk

[Radek]

please delete - a double post by mistake...

[The Chase]

For use, depends who you are and what you like.

For sound, yes and no...some older samplers (even some that are 10+ years old) have fantastic sounding time-stretching. Also they typically pitch very well, and even the mentioned older ones up-sample and interpolate like a motha.

But if you have the CPU power to run your samplers with high up-sampling and posh interpolation settings, you won't really be gaining anything unless the drum machine approach better suits your workflow.

but lately ive been looking at the results - many sample based genres have gone down hill in the last few years- look at drum and bass etc. Is this because we all use computers now?

More to do with economics and sociology of DnB. DnB is brain-f**ked by technology at the moment and couldn't have handled the segway into digital in a way much worse than it did. It will be on its feet soon enough, if listeners start paying for the music...

[sweet_trip]

i would go back to hardware samplers just to relieve my computer from RAM issues. but then again i could just buy a new computer with more RAM. but it may be cheaper to get a fully loaded samplers... hmmmm.

anyway, samplers will not improve your beats, only you can improve your beats. and whether your using a roland s50 or Ableton Live, you are still working with samples because samples=digital audio.

the way d'n'b has more or less conformed to a specific sound and style has nothing to do with computers, but with producers and fans. that's the human factor, not the machine. i personally have nothing against that, i mean look at house and trance and hip hop (underground or not)...

i can tell you that Akai always made beats sound gritty and punchy, while EMU always sounded a bit more warm, or polished, and Roland sounded sort of in between but i bit thin for me.

if you're looking to add more grit to your computer audio, take your soft sampler or any other audio out of your audio card, into a mixer, crank up the gain on the mic preamps until it starts to overdrive, then pull the gain back slowly until the distortion goes away, then route that back to your audio card and record it in 32bit, or 16bit to be more retro. you could also convert that to 12bit to be even more retro (don't use a bit reducer VST, it doesn't sound the same).

[markroom]

thats cool -

basically all im saying is that at the moment there are two things happening - software is coming of age and certain hardware is becoming very cheap.

Im only interested in what sounds best. I dont have any loyalities to hardware or software.If my bass sounds better coming from analogue gear thats what i'll use.

I can make software sound good - but i want the best sound possible. If that means having an akai just for my kick drums then thats cool.

What originally put me of using hardware samplers was a fear of doing what has already been done.

However - with infinte choices now availablity and a limited time- a man has to make a stand and say -
a) works and has a proven track record-
b) has yet to live up to its GUI.

[dreaddd]

hi there

i still own two Akais, a S950 and a S3000XL
nonetheless now i just put my hands on HALion and Phatmatik..so you guess im not that HW uber-orthodox in terms of "ooooh the pc is too cold for me"
i still find the tweaking way i had for breaks on Akais though, the perfect way for me, even now that im not using them anymore..hence im gonna bring in the 3k again very soon for quick bounces thru the pc and the sampler via mixer or SCSI to gain the most from both platforms
my 2 cents
Peace

[jones-y]

hardware samplers- better for drums?

As a general rule,no.

Opinion. To which all are entitled, of course. Rule? That's funny...

However some like the sound of them.I don't miss hardware samplers one bit. Good riddance,hope i never have to use one

I'll come back to this point later.

but lately ive been looking at the results - many sample based genres have gone down hill in the last few years- look at drum and bass etc. Is this because we all use computers now?

No.

I highly doubt its the prevailing factor, but I don't necessarily agree that its a non-factor, especially considering how workflow influences output. So, whether or not you consider the workflow of a particular hardsampler better or worse than its soft counterpart (which is also a matter of opinion, working style, source material to be sampled or loaded, genre/subgenre of music, etc...) one must admit that the nature and character of the output, in an inherently creative process (composing a piece of music), is directly influenced by how your tools do what they do. Different types of paints, paintbrushes and canvases will influence the artist to create different shades of art; to give a parallel.

I love software and there are things that i cant imagine attempting on a software sampler with limited memory etc.

Limited memory in a softsampler ? How much memory do you think the old MPCs S series samplers had ? With few exceptions,not a lot.
The MPC 60 had like a megabyte or so. The S1000 had eight.

I think he meant to say hardsampler (and I agree with his point, BTW). Anyway, we've all heard someone say something along the lines of 'limitations enhance creativity. Grain of salt and YMMV apply...

If computer daws cant produce the best kick or bass warmth we can still use them as a more powerful way to control or edit harware better suited for these task.

If you can't get the sound you want from a computer chances are you suck not your tools.

But earlier you alluded to the fact that hardsamplers have "a sound"... Now, from my personal experience, the descriptor laborious doesn't do justice to the process of coaxing an SP-12 (for one of many examples) sounding sample from a computer. Even the late nineties samplers, whose coloration is much more subtle than the SP and the other early 8 or 12 bit samplers, create a sound that honestly takes an inordinate amount of work to recreate. So to postulate that 'you suck if you can't get SP-12 grunginess out of your PC soundcard' is a bit unfair. Yeah its possible, but its also way faster and easier to just use the sampler whose sound you desire.

Of course this is just my personal observation after a considerable amount of direct experience trying to 'get the sound I want from a computer', with varying results, but I've also heard this sentiment echoed many times in many places by many people in many genres.

[markroom]

Cool another good reponse there- basically ive had a few days to think about it and im gonna just pick up a cheap hardware samplers secondhand and use it for just kick drum.

So either way i will find out.

I was hoping to hear from people who may have already half gone back to hardware.

Computers are great but can also be the biggest waste of time ever. Then again if you get into the shower and the temperature is wrong maybe you should try turning the taps. What if theres a million billion taps?-

If a sampler is a blank canvas and you just get out what you put in then in one sense they cant become obsolete?

Anyway i'll put up a post when i get the thing. May just be best thing for me but not everyone else etc.

Thanks for your replies.

[musikmachine]

Hey markroom i haven't used a dedicated hw sampler myself just the RS so i can't really comment.Can't really recommend anything either but i'd say get the best you can for the money thats going to have the features you need then you'll have a good idea either way

My experience of hw is limited,it's all good but imo it's just like sw in that you have to get the right one that suits your workflow etc.Maybe someone can recommend a sampler.

jones-y makes a lot of good points and i can relate to a lot of what he said