KVR Audio

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:05 am

Every so often I make a topic like this, after checking the market and seeing that STILL no one has made a library with more than one or two amazing breakbeat/dnb kicks. I'm talking a sound like Hybrid, BT, Pendulum, and The Crystal Method; stuff that absolutely cuts through the entire mix. Ultra-punchy, but not too clicky. Phat in the low range but not 'flabby' with excess subs. A very rounded, clean sound. I'd go so far as to say that if there was a sample library with a mere *20* 'perfect' kicks, I would probably be willing to shell out about $299 for it. Maybe more, depending on how good they are.

Any takers?

xolax · Post by **xolax** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:13 am

Nope.
Layering and proccessing is key to making those awesome kicks. How do you think Pendulum and the others do it? Not through pre-made kick samples that's for sure.
You just gotta choose a couple of matching kicks, trim them apply some minor fx and presto - you got your kick.
EDIT: Aren't you a proffessional sound designer?

The Chase · Post by **The Chase** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:24 am

Wouldn't work out as well as you wish. The way a DnB mix is done, a pre-fab DnB kick wouldn't work well most of the time unless you put a lot of work on it, which could be spent making your own from raw materials. The kick is fundamental to what makes an electronic track in DnB/House/Trance go, and if the building is already done there is no room to build it into the rest of your track.

For instance, If a kick is already over-driven and EQ'd I'm not going to be able to send it to a drums channel to EQ and distort it because it will be more distorted than the rest of the drums, etc.

Same reason established producers rarely use these ONE MILLION SUPER AWESOME TRANCE/HOUSE KICKS 3000 packs - because even though you can get a decent kicking track out of the box with them in 30 seconds, by the time you set up your mix to drive, punch and pump like a normal house track, the pre-fab kick isn't going to hold up as well as a raw 909 kick.

But shit dude for $299 I'll sell you mine

xolax · Post by **xolax** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:33 am

^ I agree with Chase ^
Wouldnt work out.

Distorted_Mastermind · Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:35 am

Drum and bass is real similar to hip hop in how the drums are done. A carefully selected break or two will work wonders, then hit samples or a drum synth can be added to fatten the sound up.
Low pass filters can make bass drums seem punchier and snares and claps crack, and multiband compression can help blend it all together
I'm with Chase on the use of genre specific drum samples, probably best avoided.

xolax · Post by **xolax** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:55 am

Also reinforce your kicks with sines or 909 kicks, for extra depth.

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:10 am

Frankly, I don't buy that it can't be done. I have a private collection of kicks built with careful layering, EQ, distortion, compression, etc. They all fit perfectly into various mixes. I simply don't process them as much as I would a raw kick sound. Likewise I've picked up sample CDs (not for kicks, but for snares) where the sounds are just amazing out of the box and really require virtually no processing and sound fantastic on their own. Am I a sound designer, and can I continue spending hours and hours tweaking my own kicks? Yeah, but there's nothing wrong with using the designs of other people to spice things up, or simply on days where I'm in a writing (rather than producing) mood.

Before you ask why I don't put *my* humble collection up for sale... well, it's built from lots of copyrighted libraries, which is OK for my own personal usage, but it would be violating the license agreement(s) to use them in the creation of a new commercial library.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:21 am

Only if they're "edited", not 1:1 copied - as it's written in most license agreements. Especially if done with stuff like Stylus, Gota Yashiki and eLab.

I'd live to have my claws on Chase's and your drumsamples, too. Then again... I still consider taking an aditional sounddesign class, and I'm not that unskilled either in terms of "layering" and "soundcreation" - so far the stuff I needed worked for me and I have more than enough samples to layer from to get the sound I need. Except HipHip stuff maybe. Then agian, I barely do any LA-typish HipHip.

Distorted_Mastermind · Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:36 am

In my opinion the magic comes from selecting the drums on a track by track basis starting with a breakbeat and building on that with more breakbeats, hit samples,a drum synth, or any combination.....The main thing is to use sounds that naturally blend.

sb.net · Post by **sb.net** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:22 pm

It took me a really long time to get tight, rounded kicks.. Here's my method..

I normally take light sounding hip hop or trip hop sounds (if you know where to get some, tell me) , layer them up in FL Studio and do phase inversions on some of the sounds to make them fit together better..

For processing (e.g. compression, distortion, ect..)I use CamelCrusher.. Then I route that to my drum bus and run SimpleSqueeze..

Also, I use the out knob in FL Studio's sampler to tighten them up a bit..

Disclaimer: There might be better ways to do this, but this the the best method I've found to do this job. Under NO circumstance do you have to use this information.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:41 pm

So in short, you compress and distort them, then you use a clipping compressor, and in the end add even more distortion (clipping) thanks to the host, render your stuff and reimport them again.

IF you figured that out, can you figure out the kick that was used in the track "Clones" by "Ice Minus" (hm... I've got an idea how it was done though, but I couldn't pull it off yet).

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:27 pm

Spent some time over the last 18 hours or so crafting seven kicks. Here's one in action.

http://www.soundtempest.net/kickloop.mp3

This is what I'm talking about! Though I'm sure someone with better gear and a larger pool of samples could make something even sharper.

core · Post by **core** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:04 am

Sounds good to me

sb.net · Post by **sb.net** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:32 am

Sounds great, what are you going to do with them?

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:32 pm

Those who say its in the layer have it spot on. You cant really isolate one sound as the 'sound' is in the combination. I know that BT often layers vinyl breaks, live drums and electronic beats, each EQ'd to fill a 'range'.

To be honest, I find that if you get a few typical 'dance' type drum samples and mix them with the right vinyl break... EQ here, filter there... bung the lot into a compressor and a warmifier and you should have something nice.

To be honest, the biggest problem is preventing frequency conflicts. For instance, if you need more bottom and EQ wont do it, slip a sine kick underneath. But be prepared to filter out the bottom of your original kick otherwise it can sound nasty.

Another thing to be aware of is the attack transients. I find its wise to trim and top so that they line up perfectly. Sometimes it can sound good not to do this and get that flamming attack sound. You find that alot with your 'tarnce' kicks. But for what you want, its probably better to have them lining up nicely.

TB

Perfect dnb/breakbeat kicks?