Does anyone know anything about the musical style this thing creates?
What I mean is, the nature of using bars and pedals with your chords means that pedal steel guitars have a very typical sound; not only timbrally but also harmonically.
I'm having a hard time finding info regarding the latter, but I'd like to be able to work some of those style riffs around new instruments and timbres...
Pedal Steel Guitar?
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- KVRAF
- 4222 posts since 23 Feb, 2004 from Tucson Arizona USA
I figured all the country / rockabilly fans would come out of the KVR woodwork for this one...
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
gee I thought of Gilmour 
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 4222 posts since 23 Feb, 2004 from Tucson Arizona USA
I thought of Buddy Cage.Hink wrote:gee I thought of Gilmour
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- KVRAF
- 3864 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
Run for cover ! 
Pedal steel on kvr...
Seriously, one of the most fascinating inxtruments ever
Some quick dos and don'ts (drastically incomplete)
- most common tunings: E9, then C6 (jazzier)
- pedals and levers raise and lower individual strings without affecting the others, something that is very hard to do in MIDI and afaik impossible to play realtime on a keyboard
- unlike in blues guitar your pedal and lever target notes typically are straight semi tones, no under- or overbending.
- the slides however explore all the inbetween territory
- the "timing" of bends and slides is absolutely crucial
- just like the excessive use of a volume pedal to blend notes in
- soundwise a clean jazz guitar sample is a good start, typically a pedal steel is not distorted, the commonly used crunchy sound is lap steel or slide guitar most of the time.
- generous amounts of reverb, delay and chorus help
- some great steelers to listen to (even more incomplete):
Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons, Dan Dugmore, Bruce Bouton, Lloyd Maines, Rusty Young, "Sneaky Pete" Kleinow, hundreds more
- one typical basic pedal steel lick would be:
play a C9 chord and then raise the D up to E (keeping the other notes of the chord ringing unchanged !) to get a straight C
- good players are able to do incredibly complex stuff harmonically
Did I alredy mention I love that instument ? 
Cheers,
susiwong
Pedal steel on kvr...
Seriously, one of the most fascinating inxtruments ever
Some quick dos and don'ts (drastically incomplete)
- most common tunings: E9, then C6 (jazzier)
- pedals and levers raise and lower individual strings without affecting the others, something that is very hard to do in MIDI and afaik impossible to play realtime on a keyboard
- unlike in blues guitar your pedal and lever target notes typically are straight semi tones, no under- or overbending.
- the slides however explore all the inbetween territory
- the "timing" of bends and slides is absolutely crucial
- just like the excessive use of a volume pedal to blend notes in
- soundwise a clean jazz guitar sample is a good start, typically a pedal steel is not distorted, the commonly used crunchy sound is lap steel or slide guitar most of the time.
- generous amounts of reverb, delay and chorus help
- some great steelers to listen to (even more incomplete):
Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons, Dan Dugmore, Bruce Bouton, Lloyd Maines, Rusty Young, "Sneaky Pete" Kleinow, hundreds more
- one typical basic pedal steel lick would be:
play a C9 chord and then raise the D up to E (keeping the other notes of the chord ringing unchanged !) to get a straight C
- good players are able to do incredibly complex stuff harmonically
Did I alredy mention I love that instument ?
Cheers,
susiwong
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
actually Greg (lunch money) if I remember correctly made a beatiful one...let's see if he'll post the pic again
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
It's actually a lap steel that I made. A different beast! Currently it's tuned to C6, but everything I do sounds Hawaiian, so I'm thinking of making a switch to a 9th tuning of some variety.
I added an Epiphone EZ-Bender so that I could combine "behind the bar" bends on one string with palm-bends on my picking hand. I honestly haven't taught myself how to play much of anything yet, but it was a fun and easy build! Here it is:
Since the photo was taken, there have been a few changes:
1 - replaced my self-made roller bridge with a Wilkinson bridge that I had machined in order to remove the radius (lap steel and other steels are generally flat-radiused)
2 - took out the single-coil and switch. Just a blade humbucker and volume knob now.
3 - put on some Wilkinson EZ-loK tuners. I had'em, thought I'd see if I liked'em. The dual post holes made it easier to provide a more consistent break across the nut.
4 - dropped the "guitar steel" (though it's dandy for Dobro-style playing) in favour of a Shubb steel bar and an Ernie Ball bullet bar. The former is good when you need similar control to the dobro bar, and the latter is indispensible for slants and is generally the bar of choice for steelers (not Ernie Ball specifically, just bullet bars). Robert Randolph uses a Shubb like the one I have, though, so there's no rule... just use whatever works for ya!
My skills are still nonexistent and to be honest I hardly play it right now. I repurposed a bowed-neck acoustic for bluegrass playing, and I've been having some fun in Open G (though Open G seems like a pretty limiting tuning).
Good memory on ya, Hink!
As for pedal steel, I love it. That's why I added the EZ-bender to mine in the first place. It's the transitions and movements from chord to chord that are so damn beautiful. I think Pedal Steel is my favourite stringed instrument, even though I can't play it and don't feel I have the foundation in harmony theory to work one properly.
Greg
I added an Epiphone EZ-Bender so that I could combine "behind the bar" bends on one string with palm-bends on my picking hand. I honestly haven't taught myself how to play much of anything yet, but it was a fun and easy build! Here it is:
Since the photo was taken, there have been a few changes:
1 - replaced my self-made roller bridge with a Wilkinson bridge that I had machined in order to remove the radius (lap steel and other steels are generally flat-radiused)
2 - took out the single-coil and switch. Just a blade humbucker and volume knob now.
3 - put on some Wilkinson EZ-loK tuners. I had'em, thought I'd see if I liked'em. The dual post holes made it easier to provide a more consistent break across the nut.
4 - dropped the "guitar steel" (though it's dandy for Dobro-style playing) in favour of a Shubb steel bar and an Ernie Ball bullet bar. The former is good when you need similar control to the dobro bar, and the latter is indispensible for slants and is generally the bar of choice for steelers (not Ernie Ball specifically, just bullet bars). Robert Randolph uses a Shubb like the one I have, though, so there's no rule... just use whatever works for ya!
My skills are still nonexistent and to be honest I hardly play it right now. I repurposed a bowed-neck acoustic for bluegrass playing, and I've been having some fun in Open G (though Open G seems like a pretty limiting tuning).
Good memory on ya, Hink!
As for pedal steel, I love it. That's why I added the EZ-bender to mine in the first place. It's the transitions and movements from chord to chord that are so damn beautiful. I think Pedal Steel is my favourite stringed instrument, even though I can't play it and don't feel I have the foundation in harmony theory to work one properly.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 3864 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
Hi Greg,
that's a nice one !
Takes some courage to start a project like that, wish I were a bit better with woodworking ...
Agreed, G tuning is more suitable for (5 string) guitars.
Have you tried E-B-G#-E-B-E (open E) or open D (two semi-tones lower) ? Imho most of the G licks are possible, too, plus lots more.
Btw, why not forget about levers and behind-the-bar bends for now and just explore straight slide ?
You'll be up and running in a few days to play some simple licks so that they sound good, and even that can add a lot of life to a song.
And it's good fun...
Cheers,
susiwong
that's a nice one !
Takes some courage to start a project like that, wish I were a bit better with woodworking ...
Agreed, G tuning is more suitable for (5 string) guitars.
Have you tried E-B-G#-E-B-E (open E) or open D (two semi-tones lower) ? Imho most of the G licks are possible, too, plus lots more.
Btw, why not forget about levers and behind-the-bar bends for now and just explore straight slide ?
You'll be up and running in a few days to play some simple licks so that they sound good, and even that can add a lot of life to a song.
And it's good fun...
Cheers,
susiwong
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- KVRian
- 637 posts since 5 Sep, 2001 from Hollywood, Ca. one block East of the Jack in the Box
Pedal steel is surprisingly easy IMHO.Greg wrote: I think Pedal Steel is my favourite stringed instrument, even though I can't play it and don't feel I have the foundation in harmony theory to work one properly.
Me and a pal went in on one a while back, and whereas I'm not able to solo or anything much, I can still get "that sound".
It's supersimple, (in the simplest form), without moving the bar, you hit a chord. That's your one (I) chord.
Then you hit the first two pedals, and it makes it your IV chord.
Then you hit the middle pedal and push your knee over. That's your V chord.
...so you can get through most country and blues without even moving the bar!
Here's a very poorly played, very poorly recorded clip I just did on my not-an-ipod.
http://sleek.phreque.com/pedal.mp3
(quicktime hates this file. Right click and save-as to hear in media player.)
The first 3 chords are without moving the bar, and none of the "licks" (if something so primitive can be called that) involve moving the bar. You just hold it there and hit pedals.
If I have put 10 hours into learning this, I'd be surprised. It's that simple.
Not great, but good enough to add the flavor to a recording
Check out the song "early" here on my myspace page:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... id=2230300
BTW: I don't get along with fingerpicks. It sounds fine without.
BTW2: As far as I can tell, 3 pedals and 2 knee levers is fine. I can't even fit my tall-assed legs under the damned thing to hit the other 2 knee levers, so don't listen to people who tell you the starter models aren't any good.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Jeez, that DOES sound good. If it's that easy to get up and running, I'll have to look into it some day.
Susi: of course there's plain bar playing to be done. I'm a decent enough slide guitarist I guess. It's pretty hard to screw it up if you use an appropriate tuning. I have my hand technique down pretty good and my intonation's about right. Selective string muting with the right hand, all that stuff.... But that wasn't the idea behind the build. The idea was to be able to create an instrument that could emulate the pedal steel sound without taking up space in my teeny apartment. As mentioned, I have the retrofitted acoustic (I made a nut riser for it) that can do the plain stuff. The C6 didn't lend itself well to that idea, though, and I just haven't bothered selecting a tuning that will better accomodate behind-the-bar and palm bends to create pedal steel movement. Too much thinking.
As for the build itself, it couldn't have been easier. If I had all my plans made and parts on-hand, I could build another in about a day.
Greg
Susi: of course there's plain bar playing to be done. I'm a decent enough slide guitarist I guess. It's pretty hard to screw it up if you use an appropriate tuning. I have my hand technique down pretty good and my intonation's about right. Selective string muting with the right hand, all that stuff.... But that wasn't the idea behind the build.
The idea was to be able to create an instrument that could emulate the pedal steel sound without taking up space in my teeny apartment. As mentioned, I have the retrofitted acoustic (I made a nut riser for it) that can do the plain stuff. The C6 didn't lend itself well to that idea, though, and I just haven't bothered selecting a tuning that will better accomodate behind-the-bar and palm bends to create pedal steel movement. Too much thinking. As for the build itself, it couldn't have been easier. If I had all my plans made and parts on-hand, I could build another in about a day.
Greg
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- KVRist
- 460 posts since 28 Jan, 2003
Wow... I love this thread! Lot's of good info.
Really dug the song and the pedal steel sounds fine! What kind did you and your buddy purchase? Is there anything decent out there for under a grand?Check out the song "early" here on my myspace page:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... file&frien did=2230300
Cap'n Spanky
From the Planet Screwball
From the Planet Screwball
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- KVRian
- 637 posts since 5 Sep, 2001 from Hollywood, Ca. one block East of the Jack in the Box
...and that's an embarrassingly poor clip. I just ran over to it, put my not-an-ipod on voice record and hit it. You can hear the pedals working because I set the recorder directly on the steel...
...but it's really simple to get basic functionality out of it. Even minor chords are just hitting one pedal...
Mind you, I have a "cheat sheet" written on tape that says what chord is at each position, and what chord you get when you hit different pedals~I'm sure "real" players would be appalled, but f**k 'em-it works.
One trick is you gotta get the right amp. I lucked out and found a '70's Peavey L.A> 400 at guitar center for $90
which sounds perfect! Any of the old Peaveys should get you close, just avoid "modern" amps.
...but it's really simple to get basic functionality out of it. Even minor chords are just hitting one pedal...
Mind you, I have a "cheat sheet" written on tape that says what chord is at each position, and what chord you get when you hit different pedals~I'm sure "real" players would be appalled, but f**k 'em-it works.
One trick is you gotta get the right amp. I lucked out and found a '70's Peavey L.A> 400 at guitar center for $90
which sounds perfect! Any of the old Peaveys should get you close, just avoid "modern" amps.-
oddbods finger oddbods finger https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=55496
- KVRian
- 779 posts since 21 Jan, 2005 from The Vale of Eden
I love the pedal steel sound.
Sleek, that mp3 makes me want to go buy one.
Although I have absolutely no idea how much one costs or how easy they are to pick up second hand.
Are there such things as cheap pedal steels?
Sleek, that mp3 makes me want to go buy one.
Although I have absolutely no idea how much one costs or how easy they are to pick up second hand.
Are there such things as cheap pedal steels?
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I've seen some models for $900 CDN. Couldn't say what the quality is like, though.